Learning from accidents

[eldog]

Can happen for all sorts of reasons, not just mechanical. But when it does, you better hope you can relax in a hurry cos if you fight it, it's gonna hurt.

One reason is suddenly twisting the bars around during a rear wheel slide, like you would in a car.
misaligning the front wheel with the direction of the bike. Seemed like hell had broken loose on my arms
Yep, I first tried to hold it steady, then I remembered what I read in a mbike book (I can read)
to relax and let the bike sort itself out - well that's what I remembered then......
Slowly it diminished - seemed like FOREVER

[Maha]

It would be a rare thing for anyone (but the person/s directly involved) to learn from and accident. I have seen a good number of accidents and all I can conclude is, someone fucked up. I had nothing to do with it, what can I learn?

My personal view is, you learn from your own pucker moments. I have got myself into several situations over the years that could have turned out not as the did, had it not been for A) a cool head and.... B) no oncoming traffic (on one occasion)

From those moments, all I need to ask myself is why did that happened? If I know the answer (which I generally do) I am well on the way of becoming more aware....within my helmet. Never ever take things for granted though, when least you expect it, expect it.

[nzspokes]

Oh dear! Really? You'd been doing so well too. Do you understand what causes a front wheel to come off the ground? (There's more but we'll wait to see where your level of understanding is first)

She has never ridden a bike with actual horsepower.

[samgab]

Why tankslappers happen and how to avoid them:

1. The “tankslapper” is a very frightening experience. Usually occurring when accelerating hard over bumpy pavement, a tankslapper ensues when the front tyre becomes airborne, then regains traction outside the rear tyre’s alignment. The resulting deflection bounces the tyre off to one side, followed by another bounce in the opposite direction as it contacts the pavement again. Unless the bike’s steering geometry is able to damp out the deflections quickly, the resulting oscillations from the front tyre as it bounces back and forth will swiftly gain in strength, causing the bars to swap from side to side with increasing ferocity. The oscillations can be violent enough to rip the bars out of your hands, and fling your feet off the pegs. You can guess what happens next.

2. The easy cure for this problem is a steering damper. Many sports bikes now come stock with one, as the radical steering geometry needed for quick handling can otherwise cause some instability in certain situations. While a steering damper is an easy fix, it shouldn’t be a cure-all; if you’re forced to adjust the steering damper’s stiffness (if available) until you can barely turn the bars in order to keep the bike’s handling stable, there is a problem somewhere in your chassis setup. A too-stiff steering damper can also cause handling problems by itself; if your steering damper is adjustable, and you find that your bike won’t hold a line (especially in slower corners), or gets into a small wobble or oscillation in high speed corners, try backing off the stiffness a little and see if it helps.

3. Not all sports bikes need a steering damper, however. Many have steering geometry setups that offer quick handling, while still providing the necessary stability to damp out any front-end oscillations. In most cases, one of the biggest contributors to a tankslapper is your body positioning and grip on the bars. Some people ride in a more upright position when carving corners, but when accelerating over bumpy pavement, that upright body position puts even more weight transfer to the rear, which causes the front end to get lighter. Also, the more upright torso means that your grip on the bars is tighter in order to stabilize your upper body. That firmer grip feeds more input into the front end, something it doesn’t need while it’s busy trying to damp out the inputs from the bouncing front tyre. It actually forms a vicious circle: you grip the bars tighter because they’re starting to flap back and forth, but that only feeds more input into the front end, compounding the problem further.

4. The easiest way to avoid tankslappers while accelerating over bumpy pavement is to—believe it or not—keep a relaxed grip on the bars. Relaxing your grip on the bars means you must lean forward in order to assist in keeping your torso stabilized. This helps put more weight on the front end, which keeps the front tyre on the pavement. Since you’re not using your arms to stabilize your upper body, get your weight onto the foot-pegs so that you can get your body as far forward as possible; this also allows you to grip the tank with your knees for more stability.

If you do get into a tankslapper, keep your weight forward and—as hard as this sounds—maintain a relaxed grip on the bars. Let the motorcycle’s chassis deal with damping out the oscillations. Don’t try to be a human steering damper; you’ll only make the problem worse. Tankslappers can definitely soil your undies; but if you’re able to deal with them correctly, you’ll usually ride through them before you know it.

-Source: Sportsrider

...and as for saving highsides, the best way is to avoid them altogether if possible, by staying within your limits, and the bike's and the tyre's limits.

If it happens that you do find yourself getting into a slide:

1. Do Nothing

That’s right, nothing. Don’t react. Nine times out of 10, the bike will simply correct itself. If you allow it to. If you close the throttle too quickly, you run the risk of the rear tire regaining traction too quickly, potentially causing a high-side while also shifting the motorcycle’s weight balance forwards, exacerbating the slide itself. If you counter-steer too much, you risk over-correction. Believe it or not, but a bike’s trail will actually cause it to naturally steer into a slide for you. And if you hit the brakes? Well, applying the front brake would likely cause the sliding rear to overtake the front wheel and applying the rear would likely lock that tire, cutting the gyroscopic stability it lends the machine and thereby increasing the odds the bike will end up on the ground.

2. Be The Cheetah Tail

Channel that scene from The Matrix. You know, the one with the spoon. Just here you turn your body into the tail of a cheetah. The big cat uses its long, heavy tail as a counter balance, helping it change direction quickly and to retain stability during extreme maneuvers. If you’re hanging off the bike, allow it to move around freely underneath you while you hold your body relatively still. This helps the bike “find” the right direction to go in.

3. Be Gentle

If you do anything, do it gently. Sometimes, modest deceleration will bring things back into line, but this transfers weight off the rear wheel. Others prefer acceleration, which transfers weight rearwards. The general theory being that, unless you hit zero-traction ice, you have some grip and some ability control the bike’s steering, speed and angle of slide, despite the spinning rear wheel. But, controlling a slide with the throttle takes a deft touch and lots of skill, which requires practice.

4. Look Where You Want To Go

Don’t focus on the ditch or the oncoming truck, look towards the corner’s exit, where you want to be. This works for all riding situations you may find yourself in, but if the bike is moving around underneath you, it becomes doubly important. Consciously force yourself to focus on where you want to be and your subtle body movements in response will help the bike find its way there.

5. Practice

Want to slide-proof your riding? Go practice doing it. Any old dirt bike will do, allowing you to practice slides at a fairly low speed in a much safer environment than on the road. Want to go further? Try flat track racing. That’s about the lowest-cost form of motorsport there is and about all you do is slide. That’s how MotoGP greats like Nicky Hayden and Valentino Rossi practice, too.

Job done!

-Source: Rideapart

[eldog]

It would be a rare thing for anyone (but the person/s directly involved) to learn from and accident. I have seen a good number of accidents and all I can conclude is, someone fucked up. I had nothing to do with it, what can I learn?

My personal view is, you learn from your own pucker moments. I have got myself into several situations over the years that could have turned out not as the did, had it not been for A) a cool head and.... B) no oncoming traffic (on one occasion)

From those moments, all I need to ask myself is why did that happened? If I know the answer (which I generally do) I am well on the way of becoming more aware....within my helmet. Never ever take things for granted though, when least you expect it, expect it.

Granted most accidents you cant learn from.
Yes definitely learn from my own moments
Sometimes talking with people involved they may be able to tell you what to watch for.
they may know why themselves, if they don't then we cant learn. Did they mis-read the road, was there debris, stuff like that.
I don't mean to over think things. Somethings a begineer wont know because they have insufficent info, these are the things we can learn from - like how slippery pine needles are, how shady areas of the road can have ice on them even in summer
Expect the unexpected - yes

[FJRider]

She has never ridden a bike with actual horsepower.

Nor traveled at a significant speed ...

[Luckylegs]

If you think you have a different/better analysis of what the guy did wrong how about giving it as attacking my analysis without doing your own does not show you to be very bright.

You think the rider was showing off?

[Luckylegs]

...through them quite confidently by keeping a very tight grip on the bars to keep any deflection to the absolute minimum.

Yoooooou muuuuuustttt riiiiideee veeeryyyyyy sloooooooooooooooooowlyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[eldog]

Why tankslappers happen and how to avoid them:

-Source: Sportsrider

...and as for saving highsides, the best way is to avoid them altogether if possible, by staying within your limits, and the bike's and the tyre's limits.

If it happens that you do find yourself getting into a slide:



-Source: Rideapart

I didn't see the tar bleed midway through the corner and I didnt then know about how slippery wet tar bleed was especially after a hot dry spell.
was only doing 70 when the side occurred - OMG - I wasn't prepared for that much slide.
I tried to keep the throttle constant - bloody hard when you're got a tankslapper
I was doing #4 tankslapper, relaxed leaning forward position on bike - it really helped
fighting it didnt work

[Berries]

plus have seen mortared racers do it too.

As hard as concrete those boys.

[Katman]

Slapper vid

He should probably slow down.

[Luckylegs]

If he had got around the corner sufficiently tft the front up would you not call it showing off? Maybe on the race tracks where you live it does not happen but I have a photo of a Brittan bike doing a wheel stand on a race track plus have seen mortared racers do it too.

No id call it getting as much power to the rear wheel as possible and i see it regularly

Atchily im sure someone will be along with a better description but im sure he wasnt showing off

[FJRider]

He should probably slow down.

Ummm .... he did ... right after the tank slapper ...

[Luckylegs]

You must ride way too fast coming out of corners. Now you have learnt something today on how not to get into tank slap situations eh. Or as the guy in the video said you may be riding a bike with a poor suspension set up or modification so maybe get your bike checked if you have bought it second hand. Maybe there could be an issue with some brand new bikes being more prone to it than others and it's quite understandable that magazine testers would not be keen to test them for their tank slap potential. I guess I have been very lucky with the bikes I have bought over the years.

Why, i dont recall mentioning my riding at all. Oh wait, youve responded to the person havent you. Oh you poor dear. This internet just isnt as easy as riding is it?

[unstuck]

I think the guy in the slapper vid would have had a much better chance of keeping it under control if his foot didn't come off the peg.But guess we will never know aye.