Cancer and the drug companies

[Laava]

What concerns me is the fact that IF a cure is ever found, the planet is fucked.
Even more humans infesting the face of this celestial body and screwing it up..

Exactly!...

[willytheekid]

If I may...



...and fought that fucker on MY terms...not the doc's, not the drug companys, not my family's or not my friends...I chose the weapons and I chose how the fucking fight would go down(treatment type & medicine)...cos there is no cure for cancer, no silver bullet or magic beans, just your personal choice in how the fight is gonna go down...cos its just that, a dirty fucking fight to the death...either cancer's...or yours!

That Choice of treatment...is the only thing it can't take from you.

[Swoop]

Aye, a trade led by business.

They are "hands on" and do "practical" types of stuff, so therefore a tradesman. (Regularly whilst wearing a bow tie. Gah! Hand me the bleach and a syringe.)

"professionals" do paper and words/numbers types of stuff.
While wearing collared shirts and ties.

[Brian d marge]

Bloody hell Ed – where to start…

There are some alternative theories / treatments that have been properly researched that do prove effective in some cases. Where it all falls down is the ‘some cases’ which as it usually turns out isn’t your case and is awfully hard to predict…

One thing worth reading is ‘The China Study’ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study Its more a book about nutrition and the effects of diet on the diseases of affluence. Certainly its well written and well researched although eventually getting to the part where they recommend a vegan diet is a bit much for most of us. All I can say is that going meat free for 3 years did me no harm and my simple cancer was treated with no sign of future trouble. The diet part was easier than you would of thought, especially when its got serious motivation behind it.

Eventually we might cure cancer with drug based medicine. However I think the failure to date has been that big Pharma’s business model works on a single pill to cure a single illness theory. Cancers need to be treated holistically as many believe that they occur due to multiple changes in lifestyle. Poor diets, decreased exercise, more stress etc… Getting people to make basic changes is usually met with resistance…

Lets talk about getting people to make basic changes in say diet rather than taking a pill… Even for cancer… I’m a type 1 diabetic. I used to be involved with diabetes societies at a committee level etc and have had input to various programmes etc. I’ve basically given up as I could no longer trust myself to be polite. It is my observation that the poor statistics are driven by people’s addictions and inability to make obvious changes. Just like it’s obvious an alcoholic should avoid alcohol it’s a bit of a no brainer that if you have developed diabetes and you are 200kg, your really should do something about your diet / lifestyle.

Except some people just can’t. I have visited people on dialysis because their internal organs are overwhelmed by the crap they eat. There they are, plugged into a dialysis machine – and they are eating a bucket of KFC… Because it ‘makes them feel better’ and its OK ‘cos the machine will scrub out the bad stuff… Erm…. Later you talk to them about maybe making some kind of commitment to exercise and you get the old ‘Oh but its easy for you’… (no it bloody isn’t)

Eventually you just give up… Or get pissed off....

So – in short – yes alternative treatments might offer some gains simply because the original illness is oft due to our shitty diets and lack of exercise. However – that means its only motivated people that will try to make changes in sufficient time to make a difference. Most won’t or cant…

My mum had breast cancer . . my dad had lung cancer

yes . . .im screwed

but they all went through NZ health care system

Rated right up there . . best or one of the best in the world

only complaint the costs are creeping in . .

anyway agreed about the diet . I remember a study done and the figures . .dont quote me

but just after the war . .bowel cancer . . America 142 000 or something like that . . .China

18
china kept very good records for some reason after the war

reason they concluded . . . meat

America ripped into the old 96er breakfast lunch and dinner

china used meat as a garnish keeping it under about 5 %
of weekly consumption

now I dont know either way but at a guess me thinks that
diet too much of a good thing
exercise too little of a good thing
stress . . at least the stress of being eaten by a lion or T Rex was only temp not like the everyday stresses we have today

btw the above will cost you 2 cents
cos thats how much its worth

[bogan]

Bloody hell Ed – where to start…

There are some alternative theories / treatments that have been properly researched that do prove effective in some cases. Where it all falls down is the ‘some cases’ which as it usually turns out isn’t your case and is awfully hard to predict…

One thing worth reading is ‘The China Study’ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study Its more a book about nutrition and the effects of diet on the diseases of affluence. Certainly its well written and well researched although eventually getting to the part where they recommend a vegan diet is a bit much for most of us. All I can say is that going meat free for 3 years did me no harm and my simple cancer was treated with no sign of future trouble. The diet part was easier than you would of thought, especially when its got serious motivation behind it.

Eventually we might cure cancer with drug based medicine. However I think the failure to date has been that big Pharma’s business model works on a single pill to cure a single illness theory. Cancers need to be treated holistically as many believe that they occur due to multiple changes in lifestyle. Poor diets, decreased exercise, more stress etc… Getting people to make basic changes is usually met with resistance…

Lets talk about getting people to make basic changes in say diet rather than taking a pill… Even for cancer… I’m a type 1 diabetic. I used to be involved with diabetes societies at a committee level etc and have had input to various programmes etc. I’ve basically given up as I could no longer trust myself to be polite. It is my observation that the poor statistics are driven by people’s addictions and inability to make obvious changes. Just like it’s obvious an alcoholic should avoid alcohol it’s a bit of a no brainer that if you have developed diabetes and you are 200kg, your really should do something about your diet / lifestyle.

Except some people just can’t. I have visited people on dialysis because their internal organs are overwhelmed by the crap they eat. There they are, plugged into a dialysis machine – and they are eating a bucket of KFC… Because it ‘makes them feel better’ and its OK ‘cos the machine will scrub out the bad stuff… Erm…. Later you talk to them about maybe making some kind of commitment to exercise and you get the old ‘Oh but its easy for you’… (no it bloody isn’t)

Eventually you just give up… Or get pissed off....

So – in short – yes alternative treatments might offer some gains simply because the original illness is oft due to our shitty diets and lack of exercise. However – that means its only motivated people that will try to make changes in sufficient time to make a difference. Most won’t or cant…

Yeh well put. I'd say naturopaths have their place, not curing cancer, but possibly contributory to preventing it in the first place, and definitely contributory to preventing other illnesses.

[Akzle]

So – in short – yes alternative treatments might offer some gains simply because the original illness is oft due to our shitty diets and lack of exercise. However – that means its only motivated people that will try to make changes in sufficient time to make a difference. Most won’t or cant…

you should have put this part first.

i think the simple fact is that most people deserve to die.

If the curry munchers and chingies stopped or at least reduced breeding that would easily offset the amount of cancer survivors.

or, if yanks did. and that would be a huge win all over the planet.

The NZ Government can't even organise themselves to feed under-privileged children. I don't think corporations and overseas Governments are any better at "big picture" stuff.

no, but i'm sure they can organise WMDs and 7 series BMWs and pay rises and shit.

[Laava]

If I may...



...and fought that fucker on MY terms...not the doc's, not the drug companys, not my family's or not my friends...I chose the weapons and I chose how the fucking fight would go down(treatment type & medicine)...cos there is no cure for cancer, no silver bullet or magic beans, just your personal choice in how the fight is gonna go down...cos its just that, a dirty fucking fight to the death...either cancer's...or yours!

That Choice of treatment...is the only thing it can't take from you.

I think it is very important to have a good attitude like yours as well. My wife has recently been through the mill too and had a good attitude at all times even when she looked and felt like a bag of arseholes. But this is off topic and it was a stupid thing to start a thread about in the first place. Most people understand that the causes, effects and treatments are radically different from one person to another added to which is the fact that the best of our medical experts just graze the surface when it comes to knowledge about cancer and how to treat etc.
You get given information such as,for example, in our case, the chemo and radio treatment will give you a 14% better chance of it not reoccurring. Doesn't sound a lot does it? But they only have statistical data to reassure you with. They have nothing else to offer. Alternative stuff has been known to work wonders on some people and others have died. You make your own choices as my wife did and then get behind it and try to maximise your treatment, ie with a good attitude, diet etc.

[willytheekid]

I think it is very important to have a good attitude like yours as well. My wife has recently been through the mill too and had a good attitude at all times even when she looked and felt like a bag of arseholes. But this is off topic and it was a stupid thing to start a thread about in the first place. Most people understand that the causes, effects and treatments are radically different from one person to another added to which is the fact that the best of our medical experts just graze the surface when it comes to knowledge about cancer and how to treat etc.
You get given information such as,for example, in our case, the chemo and radio treatment will give you a 14% better chance of it not reoccurring. Doesn't sound a lot does it? But they only have statistical data to reassure you with. They have nothing else to offer. Alternative stuff has been known to work wonders on some people and others have died. You make your own choices as my wife did and then get behind it and try to maximise your treatment, ie with a good attitude, diet etc.

Bloody well said mate

...all the very best to you an yours

[Bikemad]

Cancer and the drug companies............good name for a band............bit like Jesus and the Dinosaurs

[yokel]

My mum had breast cancer . . my dad had lung cancer

yes . . .im screwed

but they all went through NZ health care system

Rated right up there . . best or one of the best in the world

only complaint the costs are creeping in . .

anyway agreed about the diet . I remember a study done and the figures . .dont quote me

but just after the war . .bowel cancer . . America 142 000 or something like that . . .China

18
china kept very good records for some reason after the war

reason they concluded . . . meat

America ripped into the old 96er breakfast lunch and dinner

china used meat as a garnish keeping it under about 5 %
of weekly consumption

now I dont know either way but at a guess me thinks that
diet too much of a good thing
exercise too little of a good thing
stress . . at least the stress of being eaten by a lion or T Rex was only temp not like the everyday stresses we have today

btw the above will cost you 2 cents
cos thats how much its worth

You know there could've been some kind of contamination in the US meat like say radiation, plenty of that around the US, just ask John Wayne.

When you consider how much money and resources the drug companies and the medical industry has at their disposal, can you really compare their results with alternative treatments?

How willing would the drug companies be to test to see if blended banana skins and cinnamon could be a cure for cancer?
when you can get banana skins and cinnamon for cheap anywhere.

[mashman]

They are "hands on" and do "practical" types of stuff, so therefore a tradesman. (Regularly whilst wearing a bow tie. Gah! Hand me the bleach and a syringe.)

"professionals" do paper and words/numbers types of stuff.
While wearing collared shirts and ties.

Tis a waste of a fuckload of people... still though, it's an awesome way to create jobs.

[ellipsis]

...just found this edthread...sounds very much like rubbing your knob with 60 grit sandpaper and expecting a reaction...try 40 grit on a power drill Ed...the expected results would cum quicker...

[caseye]

If I may...



...and fought that fucker on MY terms...not the doc's, not the drug companys, not my family's or not my friends...I chose the weapons and I chose how the fucking fight would go down(treatment type & medicine)...cos there is no cure for cancer, no silver bullet or magic beans, just your personal choice in how the fight is gonna go down...cos its just that, a dirty fucking fight to the death...either cancer's...or yours!

That Choice of treatment...is the only thing it can't take from you.

Glad you did buddy, be a lonely ol pace without ya!
Hate the stuff, killed my mum 7 years ago, has tried to kill my bro, sister last year, both have beaten it off , but the shit keeps coming. Dad an I only ones with no known issues.
Having "the " right attitude does definitely make a big difference.

[mashman]

...just found this edthread...sounds very much like rubbing your knob with 60 grit sandpaper and expecting a reaction...try 40 grit on a power drill Ed...the expected results would cum quicker...

You painted a picture that I'm having trouble getting rid of

[James Deuce]

You know there could've been some kind of contamination in the US meat like say radiation, plenty of that around the US, just ask John Wayne.

When you consider how much money and resources the drug companies and the medical industry has at their disposal, can you really compare their results with alternative treatments?

How willing would the drug companies be to test to see if blended banana skins and cinnamon could be a cure for cancer?
when you can get banana skins and cinnamon for cheap anywhere.

I can guarantee that they've tested any number of organic compounds. All of which contribute to the composition of the manufactured drug at the end of the process.

BTW there's far more ionising radiation in a banana than any meat product. Brazil nuts contain radium as well as K-40.