The rules.

**Henk** · 30th March 2015, 08:26

Originally Posted by TZ350

That is actually not true, and has never been expressed.

Rob, that's the way it feels from where I sit.

**andrew a** · 30th March 2015, 08:26

Hi guys this is my take on the situation. I rode the race and saw Nathaniel come off. A short while later he passed me again. I thought man he had a real quick pit stop. The race goes on I decide I should pull finger and hunt down Reagan. Unfortunately his bike expired. I keeped my eye on where Caleb and Nathaniel were running. Caleb backed off because I was gaining on him. Nathaniel was gaining on me. Finished the race wow that was great.
Came in to find that Nathaniel did not get his bike checked. This clearly goes against what was clearly stated in riders briefing by Dave Diprose. It was not until prize giving when I found the verdict of what they had decided. A 20 second penilty. The winning margin 22 seconds I believe after Caleb backed off. I started walking over to the discussion on the dummy grid but thought that was not my place to tell them what I saw as a black and white problem.
Last year I got black flagged because a flag marshal correctly saw that I didn't get my bike scrutinized after Caleb fell off. Caleb did get his bike scrutinized and lost two places. He would have been better to have taken the 20 second penilte that will now be offered to every one that fall off. The year before that Gavin V fell off. Came in to no scrutineer on the dummy grid. He could have not come in and got 20 second? The year before that in the 125 race in Taupo Cant think of his name at the moment he fell off. The race red flagged. He went to restart without getting his bike checked. He was out of the race on the restart and lost the championship.
I had a great day racing an realty appreciate the people that put so much effort into making events like this happen.
Thanks to Rob for speaking up.

**seymour14** · 30th March 2015, 08:29

Originally Posted by Henk

Not being one of the officials at this meeting but having been one of the organisers. I'm going to wade in with this.

Some of you feel that the meeting was poorly run because of this incident.

Feel strongly enough about it to run the meeting next year?

Sorry Henk, but that is not even remotely the point. The GP was run fantastically.

There was that one issue that if it was dealt with fairly, people would be able to accept it. Nathaniel won an epic F5 race, he pulled in for other reasons, but once sorted, he reentered that race and rode his guts out. All the kudos goes to him in that instance.

The last race was a very different story. And it is sad to make a mistake and get punished, but what are rules if we don't administer them as we were all told from the very first instance?

**Henk** · 30th March 2015, 08:29

Originally Posted by kel

That depends, do we also get to change the rules to suit? If yes then count me in. Open carbs for 125's or a Tokoroa 20, open fuel or a Tokoroa 20, in fact anything you can think of for a Tokoroa 20.
The organisers did a great job of running the event, was a great weekend, but that doesn't change the fact that the officials completely cocked up this call. For you guys to claim anything else is just ridiculous.
To add to what has already said on the sequence of events, During the race I saw the official's discussing what I assumed was Nathanial's choice to continue on, I saw Robin come and talk directly to Dave while Dave was standing at pit entrance waiting for Nathaniel to come in. All seemed in hand, and clearly it was, the Tokoroa 20!

If you decide to run it, you can do what you like. Remember though that for there to be a GP it has to run under MNZ rules, you want different bike specs get the rules changed.

Formula Toke as a race was only ever on the program so that people who either felt they weren't fast enogh for the GP, or couldn't be arsed getting a full licence had somewhere to race.
When we started running the GP several years ago now, we never imagined That it would be anything other than the B grade under a different name.

**F5 Dave** · 30th March 2015, 08:31

Its easy to have 20/20 hindsight. I think everyone will learn from this, but I imagine they were being careful not to penalise someone when the facts weren't clear in the middle of a race, they can't stop observing a race in the middle to call time out to hold court.

And this isn't a court. And mistakes will be made.

In the old days if you crashed & still won a GP then you certainly rode to achieve it. But the onus was on the rider to confirm that bits weren't hanging off his bike. That position has changed, and probably for the better. In those days I'd certainly remounted and with some red mist a few laps latter I was wondering why I was passing someone I was sure I'd passed before. . .oh yeah, and why are the bars bent? . . .right. . .

It is a shame and irrespective of your position on the matter, lets keep it civil, we're supposed to be doing this for fun. Nobody is being sent to prison afterwards.

**kel** · 30th March 2015, 08:43

Originally Posted by Henk

Formula Toke as a race was only ever on the program so that people who either felt they weren't fast enogh for the GP, or couldn't be arsed getting a full licence had somewhere to race. When we started running the GP several years ago now, we never imagined That it would be anything other than the B grade under a different name.

And your point is?

**Yow Ling** · 30th March 2015, 08:48

Just as an outsider looking in, maybe this isn't a balanced forum to discuss this as not all the parties are represented

**Dutchee** · 30th March 2015, 08:51

Originally Posted by Yow Ling

Just as an outsider looking in, maybe this isn't a balanced forum

You're right

**NSR143** · 30th March 2015, 08:51

It seems to me that some are not clearly reading the following:

We were not clear whether the bike's handlebar had touched the ground
No rules were changed during the race
No one approached an organizer, steward or riders rep to make a claim the handlebar had hit the ground
No rules were changed during the race
There is no MNZ rule in the rulebook stating a downed bike cannot continue
And no rules were changed before or after the race

(feel free to read this 3 or 4 times or more as required)

**NSR143** · 30th March 2015, 08:55

Just to also note... the steward (Robin Atkins) did hang around for the required time and was available for anyone to approach with any concerns.

**kel** · 30th March 2015, 08:55

Originally Posted by NSR143

It seems to me that some are not clearly reading the following:

And no rules were changed before or after the race

(feel free to read this 3 or 4 times or more as required)

yeah, yeah. Keep reading it to yourself and maybe you'll believe it
THE WRONG CALL WAS MADE, MAN UP.

**Henk** · 30th March 2015, 08:59

Originally Posted by kel

yeah, yeah. Keep reading it to yourself and maybe you'll believe it
THE WRONG CALL WAS MADE, MAN UP.

This is going to be my last post to this thread cos it's really starting to wind me up.

A call was made, it may have been wrong or right 20/20 hindsight and all that.

Now either step up because you can do a better job or shut up.
If you decide to step up get hold of Someone at MNZ and get your officials training under way.

**NSR143** · 30th March 2015, 09:00

Originally Posted by kel

yeah, yeah. Keep reading it to yourself and maybe you'll believe it
THE WRONG CALL WAS MADE, MAN UP.

maybe you're to blame for all this for not approaching an official when you saw the incident?????

**sidecar bob** · 30th March 2015, 09:07

Christ, what a lot of cock about nothing.
Racing is supposed to be fun, nobody outside bucket bubble gives a fuck & you guys shouldnt let it ruin your day.
Ive seen real racers get less angst about this kind of thing.