When is capital punishment ever justifiable?

[Voltaire]

Moral dilemma - if you could have killed Hilter prior to WW2; would you have killed him to prevent the war? I would have, in a heart beat, as most people would. It's just the scale that most people struggle with, at what point does the preventative killing lack justification - 3 victims, 300, 3,000,000? My belief is that preventing the murder from killing a second person is the tipping point.

If I went back back in time and killed Hitler, as soon as I killed him I would be like in Star Trek when they use the transporter and fade out coz my parents would never have met.....
or when I came back to this time the world would be completely different....probably run by Azxle

[awa355]

The sickest bastard on trial at the moment is the goon in Wellington that ripped teeth out of the women he controlled. Using pliers and a screwdriver??

What the hell was that going to achieve??

[swarfie]

....probably run by Azxle

Yeah that'd suck

[Crasherfromwayback]

https://www.facebook.com/attn/videos...5/?pnref=story

[Crasherfromwayback]

What the hell was that going to achieve??

A gummy mummy.

[pritch]

I have mixed feelings about the death penalty. Are there people so bad they should be killed by the state? Absolutely.

Take that current trial in Auckland, "He who must not be named." The Judge warned the jury that they are only to consider this case, they are not to do any research on the accused. That's probably because if he was named they could all search Google and find that he has done something similar previously. While I would not lose a minute's sleep if he was executed, I don't think the Police or the Courts could be trusted to get it right anywhere near 100% of the time.

Somebody meantioned the FBI. It turns out that the "science" they used to match hair is total bollocks. They now have to go back and check all the hundreds of trials where the hair evidence may have influenced a guilty verdict. The FBI, however, have trained people from other police forces in their pseudo science and nobody now knows who they all were, where they came from, or who else has been found guilty because of this nonsense.

It also turns out Dexter was wrong, the FBI blood spatter evidence is very dubious too. "Bite mark analysis" is also now being questioned.

Expert witness testimony in this country is also suspect. The Crown is paying for their evidence and the expert likes the money, so they tend to give the answer the prosecution wants, that way they get more work.

Basically without a perfect justice system we can't we can't afford to have a sentence that can't be corrected.

[Banditbandit]

The third one.

After the first two they've already demonstrated they're not willing or capable of living with the rest of us.

So - three traffic tickets and you lose your licence permanently? Haven't you demonstrated that you are unwilling to obey the road rules?

[Banditbandit]

When is it right for the state to do something that it would be wrong for an individual to do?

If it is wrong for an individual to kill, why is it right for the state to kill?

[Taxythingy]

Expert witness testimony in this country is also suspect. The Crown is paying for their evidence and the expert likes the money, so they tend to give the answer the prosecution wants, that way they get more work.

The Crown doesn't like calling expert witnesses that might give the 'wrong' answer.

Also, I doubt the prosecution is putting much effort into finding innocence once the case passes their basic 'will I get laughed at by my colleagues' test.

[oldrider]

I have mixed feelings about the death penalty. Are there people so bad they should be killed by the state? Absolutely.

Take that current trial in Auckland, "He who must not be named." The Judge warned the jury that they are only to consider this case, they are not to do any research on the accused. That's probably because if he was named they could all search Google and find that he has done something similar previously. While I would not lose a minute's sleep if he was executed, I don't think the Police or the Courts could be trusted to get it right anywhere near 100% of the time.

Somebody meantioned the FBI. It turns out that the "science" they used to match hair is total bollocks. They now have to go back and check all the hundreds of trials where the hair evidence may have influenced a guilty verdict. The FBI, however, have trained people from other police forces in their pseudo science and nobody now knows who they all were, where they came from, or who else has been found guilty because of this nonsense.

It also turns out Dexter was wrong, the FBI blood spatter evidence is very dubious too. "Bite mark analysis" is also now being questioned.

Expert witness testimony in this country is also suspect. The Crown is paying for their evidence and the expert likes the money, so they tend to give the answer the prosecution wants, that way they get more work.

Basically without a perfect justice system we can't we can't afford to have a sentence that can't be corrected.

True!

Making them stay alive but (really) locked away forever with only the barest facilities for basic daily life needs would solve the mistakes and or doubt problem.

It would also take care of the conscience of state killing!

But then the fucking do gooders would still want to pander to them and have them rehabilitated back into society! - FFS!

It seems the majority of these criminals like the current guy in Auckland (who can not be named) are out on bail or home detention etc!

As for the fucking tooth fairy criminal who like toothless women ------------- god fucking save us - whatever next!

[Taxythingy]

Back on topic, capital punishment is justifiable when and where it is already part of the law.

The dicks that failed to smuggle drugs into Indonesia knew what the punishment options were and still thought it a good idea. Sucks for their families, but I have no sympathy for them. The only proviso I'll put on that is that they had reasonable access to a fair trial. As in proven that they did smuggle the drugs. If so, . That's the law of the country they went to. Clemency to appease foreign governments, etc., is just debasing the whole point of having the deterrent.

Buuut, I don't like execution as a punishment, much as some fuckwits deserve it. To me, the cost of getting it wrong far outweighs any other costs. Lock the scum up for life. Give them shitty jobs to do. Make them wish they weren't in prison. Make sure the soap has exfoliating sand in it.

Capital punishment?

[Gadget1]

I have mixed feelings about the death penalty. Are there people so bad they should be killed by the state? Absolutely.

Take that current trial in Auckland, "He who must not be named." The Judge warned the jury that they are only to consider this case, they are not to do any research on the accused. That's probably because if he was named they could all search Google and find that he has done something similar previously. While I would not lose a minute's sleep if he was executed, I don't think the Police or the Courts could be trusted to get it right anywhere near 100% of the time.

Somebody meantioned the FBI. It turns out that the "science" they used to match hair is total bollocks. They now have to go back and check all the hundreds of trials where the hair evidence may have influenced a guilty verdict. The FBI, however, have trained people from other police forces in their pseudo science and nobody now knows who they all were, where they came from, or who else has been found guilty because of this nonsense.

It also turns out Dexter was wrong, the FBI blood spatter evidence is very dubious too. "Bite mark analysis" is also now being questioned.

Expert witness testimony in this country is also suspect. The Crown is paying for their evidence and the expert likes the money, so they tend to give the answer the prosecution wants, that way they get more work.

Basically without a perfect justice system we can't we can't afford to have a sentence that can't be corrected.

More and more countries are moving away from the death penalty Pritch and for some of the reasons you've outlined plus what MisterD and Banditbandit posted about.

However, I read an article recently that stated an infallible capital punishment system wasn't possible. I can dig up if you want.

[Taxythingy]

As for the fucking tooth fairy criminal who like toothless women

1. Toothbrush.
2. DOC longdrops.
3. Shiny, please.
4.

[Akzle]

I'm not surprised at all the liberal hand wringing over the death penalty.

It's an ethical dilemma, we shouldn't execute people because it's a person's life, blah blah blah.

Using Star Trek thinking, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If someone presents a greater risk to the community, and he/she has killed before, and the crime is horrible enough - then, fuck yes we should execute them. This retard who mowed down the housewife on the shore - perfect example. The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. For me, it's not a cost argument, in the US the cost of putting someone to death (by the time all the appeals have been run through) is significantly more than the correctional housing. In my view, it's not even about the deterrent factor. It's totally about exterminating that risky person before they do any more harm.

Moral dilemma - if you could have killed Hilter prior to WW2; would you have killed him to prevent the war? I would have, in a heart beat, as most people would. It's just the scale that most people struggle with, at what point does the preventative killing lack justification - 3 victims, 300, 3,000,000? My belief is that preventing the murder from killing a second person is the tipping point.

so it's just for murder that you're advocating the state sanctioned murder/death penalty?

and as a matter of "the greater good":
would you take a knife to a schoolbus full of kids, say 30, to save another schoolbus full of kids, say 31, that i promise i will kill if you don't?
is that one childs life worth it to you? surely, just crunching the numbers, you'd be acting in the greater good (and don't try stabbing me, that shit's not an option)

and just to go back and extrapolate on point 1. today it's murder that illegal and punishable by death, hell throw in some drug dealing, prostitution, whatever the fuck, things you agree with that are "socially unacceptable"..

and tomorrow they add in speeding. punishable by death... ok, the greater good? still happy?
maybe then they add motorcycle riding, just because that's rebellious and against the greater good of the state/people... still ok, to murder people?

fucken come next tuesday, they're added being a gypsy, jew, polish, brown haired, twins....

[Akzle]

or when I came back to this time the world would be completely different....probably run by Azxle

you'd farken love it brau