When is capital punishment ever justifiable?

[Akzle]

Hang on .. so you are saying that some rules of our society as only minor and can be broken as long as you are prepared to pay a fine - but other rules cannot be broken .. and sch transgression deserves the death penalty?

Who decides which rules are minor and which rules are major??

well, according to ocean whoever can afford it.


which. hilariously. is pretty much the way it is now.

this IS the way we've always whipped dead horses.

[Ocean1]

Hang on .. so you are saying that some rules of our society as only minor and can be broken as long as you are prepared to pay a fine - but other rules cannot be broken .. and sch transgression deserves the death penalty?

Who decides which rules are minor and which rules are major??

No.

However, most of us couldn't give a fuck about rules, it just so happens that most of the rules define how most of us behave anyway.
So it shouldn't come as a huge shock that the few rules we have that most of us disagree with are the same ones most of us break.

[Akzle]

No.

However, most of us couldn't give a fuck about rules, it just so happens that most of the rules define how most of us behave anyway.
So it shouldn't come as a huge shock that the few rules we have that most of us disagree with are the same ones most of us break.

most of 'us'?

like, a democratic majority?
you are just-too-muchery.

[madbikeboy]

Oh Lorde isn't that bad!



(See what I did there? Deliberate omission of commas etc. to see how many interpretations of that sentence there could be)

I've got to spread it around before I give you some more… Sigh, this IS just like dating.

[madbikeboy]

I'd say this turd was a prime candidate...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/austral...ars-for-murder

Detached and just killed at random for the thrill of it... OK - he gets 30 years but how could anyone every trust him? It was hardly a crime of passion was it..

The Oaks is one of the local spots in North Sydney, during summer its got a great outside bar area that's covered in trees and hot women.

[madbikeboy]

Our laws do ...



Our laws say it is wrong - taking the law into your own hands ...





Boy are you pissed at the world??? Have you every thought of getting professional help?

I've had every thought of getting professional help, I not sure I every would though.

[Katman]

The Oaks is one of the local spots in North Sydney, during summer its got a great outside bar area that's covered in trees and hot women.

I used to love their cook-your-own steaks.

[Big Dog]

Random thoughts on execution methods:

As I recall Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn in his book "The Gulag Archipeligo" described the execution method popular in Moscow during the Stalinist era. They would tell the prisoner who was about to be executed that he was going to have his photo taken. He could then be taken to the scene of the execution with minimum fuss. He would then be sat down in front of a camera following which he would receive a bullet in the back of the head.

If anbody tells you they are going to take your photo then leads you to a tiled room with a drain in the floor, be afraid. Be very afraid.

Some states in the USA have favoured the lethal injection which on the face of it sounds clean. The actual injection consists of a cocktail of drugs. The manufacturer in Europe of one of the critical componments found out how it was being used and has banned export of their product to the USA. The various states have now exhausted all of their supplies so they have contracted various pharmacies to try to recreate the drug - with less than stellar success. One guy took hours to die. Another had made his speech containing what were intended to be his last words but then added what were to be his actual final words,
"I feel my whole body burning".

Utah have previously favoured the firing squad, other states the gas chamber or the electric chair. In their enthusiasm to continue killing people they are having to do some serious head scratching to solve their chemical supply problems.

It has been reported that the Indonesian judges requested payment to ensure a lighter sentence. The payment - a bribe - was not forthcoming so...
Having lived in Asia for a couple of years and having some modest experience of their systems, that story has the ring of truth for me.

After the Indonesian firing squad has done its thing there is reportedly a wait of ten minutes before a check is conducted to see if a further bullet is required. This does raises questions about why it took some twenty minutes for the victims to be declared dead. Death from a bullet through the heart can be virtually instantaneous but that does not necessarily appear to be guaranteed in Indonesia.

So they failed to bribe the cops, the judge and the executioner? Slow learners.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[TheDemonLord]

Legislate all drugs and stop it being a crime, in fact stop the mules, the need for border control to loo for drugs etc... coz the fuckers that5's gonna take drugs is gonna gettem from somewhere, so why criminalise people for supplying for demand? Oh yeah, blind scared old whitey doesn't think doing drugs is good m'kay.

I don't think these guys should have faced jail, let alone been killed.

I agree and disagree - some drugs have relatively benign effects - even the most ardent Caffiene addicts (read the IT industry) are able to function on a day-to-day basis whilst fully dosed up with their drug of choice.

Other drugs have very dangerous effects - have you seen Meth Addict mugshots? not to mention the addiction power varies between drugs. Have you seen a Meth Addict been able to function properly in normal society?

Some drugs are unfortunately too dangerous for public consumption or at least need to be discouraged to the point where people are disuaded from trying them

[mashman]

I agree and disagree - some drugs have relatively benign effects - even the most ardent Caffiene addicts (read the IT industry) are able to function on a day-to-day basis whilst fully dosed up with their drug of choice.

Other drugs have very dangerous effects - have you seen Meth Addict mugshots? not to mention the addiction power varies between drugs. Have you seen a Meth Addict been able to function properly in normal society?

Some drugs are unfortunately too dangerous for public consumption or at least need to be discouraged to the point where people are disuaded from trying them

Dissuaded? They've had enough of that throughout the entire of existence... turns out forcing people not to do something isn't working. If addicts are going to get fucked up, then it matters not what the "rules" are. A smart society would realise this and act accordingly... not sit with its finger up its arse putting on stick plaster after sticky plaster and claiming victory.

Yes drugs are dangerous, so let's leave it up to the individual to choose... and if by some miracle people stop making Meth/P etc... then great. I'd like to see that tried please, but without the societal condemnation that comes from, erm, people with vested interests in the status quo.

[Big Dog]

How about this for an alternative. Only users are allowed to manufacture or peddle and only if they are willing to take 4 x the max "safe" dose once a year to prove their product is in fact safe for a consumer?

Don't have a license as per above and get caught? You have one hour to consume all the product you were carrying or it's off to the guillotine for you.




Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Grubber]

I just happen to see a small degree of humorous irony in the fact that the Australian government did all in their power to prevent the executions, and strongly condemned them after the event, when it was the actions of Aussie authorities who helped place these people on death row.

But that's Aussies for you - unable to think things through logically.

Are you Australian by any chance?

Australian???? Doubt it!
I just see this as you do the crime you do the time.
Quite happy they have been stopped from bringing this crap into my back yard.
what ever the Aussies do is something i don't care about really as justice is being served in many ways.
Aussie cops may have tipped them off but i have no doubt there is still a desired result for them either way.
Not over sure i agree entirely with the death penalty part but the Indonesians do. Their call for this one i'm afraid.

[TheDemonLord]

Dissuaded? They've had enough of that throughout the entire of existence... turns out forcing people not to do something isn't working. If addicts are going to get fucked up, then it matters not what the "rules" are. A smart society would realise this and act accordingly... not sit with its finger up its arse putting on stick plaster after sticky plaster and claiming victory.

Yes drugs are dangerous, so let's leave it up to the individual to choose... and if by some miracle people stop making Meth/P etc... then great. I'd like to see that tried please, but without the societal condemnation that comes from, erm, people with vested interests in the status quo.

If when an addict gets fucked up, they were in their own little padded cell, then sure - but people who have been up for days, suffering from drug-induced paranoia and have massive amounts of adrenalin surging in their system are Timebombs waiting to happen and unfortunately it is invariably the innocent bystander who pays the price, not the addict.

Some drugs the arguement can be made that the effects are relatively minor, or are socially acceptable with a few rules, others less so - I agree that ultimately if people want to get high, they will find a way to get high - maybe if we took the money we spent on Drug enforcement and spent it on Mental Health so that people didn't need to self-medicate with dangerous drugs....

[mashman]

If when an addict gets fucked up, they were in their own little padded cell, then sure - but people who have been up for days, suffering from drug-induced paranoia and have massive amounts of adrenalin surging in their system are Timebombs waiting to happen and unfortunately it is invariably the innocent bystander who pays the price, not the addict.

Some drugs the arguement can be made that the effects are relatively minor, or are socially acceptable with a few rules, others less so - I agree that ultimately if people want to get high, they will find a way to get high - maybe if we took the money we spent on Drug enforcement and spent it on Mental Health so that people didn't need to self-medicate with dangerous drugs....

Sure, that's a reality today, irrespective of man's law. Fail!, because as you point out it still happens and those who want drugs still find access to them... even inside of prison. I say exactly the same thing about money addicts, except they do far more damage than any addled drug user does to society... but that's ok, it's socially acceptable . The hypocrisy is outstanding.

Your argument would be relatively sound if alcohol was also a banned substance. It's effects are far worse than drugs, especially socially. Does the self-medication work? or are you wanting to remove that option from an individual also? It's not just a question of money, the attitude of society "drugs is bad mkay" really needs to change from one of ignorance... but alas, the propaganda machine spreading fear and lies is fueled at the highest level of "authority" i.e. the govt, and as such the fuckknuckles accepting that "authority" and their "opinion" are actually the biggest part of the problem, coz they ain't able to think past what they've been "educated".

Think on this. For every drug addict that commits a crime, there are thousands out there who don't. How can you then go on and blame drugs?

[TheDemonLord]

Sure, that's a reality today, irrespective of man's law. Fail!, because as you point out it still happens and those who want drugs still find access to them... even inside of prison. I say exactly the same thing about money addicts, except they do far more damage than any addled drug user does to society... but that's ok, it's socially acceptable . The hypocrisy is outstanding.

Your argument would be relatively sound if alcohol was also a banned substance. It's effects are far worse than drugs, especially socially. Does the self-medication work? or are you wanting to remove that option from an individual also? It's not just a question of money, the attitude of society "drugs is bad mkay" really needs to change from one of ignorance... but alas, the propaganda machine spreading fear and lies is fueled at the highest level of "authority" i.e. the govt, and as such the fuckknuckles accepting that "authority" and their "opinion" are actually the biggest part of the problem, coz they ain't able to think past what they've been "educated".

Think on this. For every drug addict that commits a crime, there are thousands out there who don't. How can you then go on and blame drugs?

Agree there is Hypocrisy, the thing with Alcohol is, it is like driving a car: thousands of people use it everyday responsibly and without incident and every so often someone does something stupid and kills themselves or others - should we ban cars?

I agree again that there is hypocrisy, and also put forward that many drug laws were first implemented on a basis of Racism as opposed to rational debate - and with all the concessions I am happy to make there is still a good causal link between drug abuse and criminal activity, irrespective of whether the drug is legal or not.

As for Self Medication - it depends on your definition of work - does the user get high and forget whatever it is that is causing their suffering - yes. But is this fixing the problem? no.

Drugs are bad M'Kay is unfortunately the same dumbed down mantra as speed kills - anyone with half a braincell can work out that these statements aren't 100% correct, but it requires just that: half a braincell which would exclude about half the population so the only option is to have these draconian policies and campaigns so that even the most half-witted simpleton can understand.