When is capital punishment ever justifiable?

[mashman]

MOST doesn't mean ALL! What does one do now.

[RDJ]

[QUOTE=seattle smitty;1130887079]

. . . " must have done some other vaguely defined things wrong . . ."

I'm not just guessing about this, it has been shown to be the case in more than one study. Most imprisoned felons have commited many crimes that were never prosecuted. These are vermin. I recently had a long talk with a prison guard who is about to retire after having worked in local, state, and federal prisons. I asked him what he thought about the likelihood of rehabilitating any worthwhile percentage of the prisoners he has known and was answered with a derisive snort. I see no reason for taxpayers to feed and house the vermin who prey upon them.

Vengeance? Good!! Let the punishment fit the crime. You can turn your other cheek if you want. Vengeance is mine, saith the atheist (me). If I catch a thief trying to rip me off, I am armed, and have a backhoe. This is not machismo, I really am a peaceable sort; my only attitude is that these individuals have no more value than a mosquito.

I knew I should have stayed out of this.

We should not stay out of this. Vermin should be exterminated. it's been shown over and over again, that when offending criminal vermin are released, they commit more crimes. Often, they escalate the level of their offending from, for example, burglary to rape and murder. Criminal vermin think rehabilitation is us victims, being suckers. There is no need to buy into their screwed-up philosophy.

[TheDemonLord]

[
We should not stay out of this. Vermin should be exterminated. it's been shown over and over again, that when offending criminal vermin are released, they commit more crimes. Often, they escalate the level of their offending from, for example, burglary to rape and murder. Criminal vermin think rehabilitation is us victims, being suckers. There is no need to buy into their screwed-up philosophy.

Shown where?

In Norway - they have prison systems designed specifically with the goal of rehabilitation - and by all accounts they are miles more effective:

http://www.dropoutprevention.org/eng...ordic-prisons/

Further reading:

https://www.google.com/search?q=scan...utf-8&oe=utf-8

However, There are a very small subset of Criminals, even amongst the Norwegians (Anders Brevic anyone?) who pose such a risk to society and whose guilt is not the subject of courtroom debate, but as close to absolute fact as possible, that I feel should receive the Death Penalty, not for the purposes of Revenge, but simply put - they are too dangerous to be allowed to live.

And should the Death Penalty be administered, it should be quick, efficient, Painless and without causing unnecessary harm - the object of the penalty is not to punish the individual, but to remove the risk that they pose.

[seattle smitty]

Grubber, I like the "trumpydom;" nobody has ever answered me with a drum-roll before, very cool!

Now come on, fellas, I haven't actually advocated wholesale, no-review execution of the entire prison population, and I did say that, however satisfying it would be in certain cases, trying to exact vengeance while making the punishment fit the crime would be way too legally complex to be workable. And I do agree with some that capital punishment, AS CURRENTLY CONSTITUTED in this country, is not noticeably effective in preventing crime. I differ with you in that I want to see the system reformed, not dropped entirely.

There was a wonderful single-panel cartoon done years ago by a cartoonist who is ordinarily not political, and not right-wing at all. The caption beneath it was, "A liberal about to be turned into a conservative" (I'm guessing you're aware of the modern American usages of the two terms). It shows a normal middle-aged man walking along a city sidewalk, with various stereotypical "liberal" cues the artist put there so you "get it": a beard and somewhat longish hair, beads, a peace symbol on his t-shirt. He is strolling along, carefree and whistling to himself. A few steps ahead, out of his sight but not ours, two street thugs are hiding in a doorway, about to jump him . . .

Funny, but a lousy way to be introduced to the reality of predatory criminals or to have one's attitudes changed. Here's wishing better luck to you guys.
I'll leave the rest of the discussion to y'all.

[TheDemonLord]

Grubber, I like the "trumpydom;" nobody has ever answered me with a drum-roll before, very cool!

Now come on, fellas, I haven't actually advocated wholesale, no-review execution of the entire prison population, and I did say that, however satisfying it would be in certain cases, trying to exact vengeance while making the punishment fit the crime would be way too legally complex to be workable. And I do agree with some that capital punishment, AS CURRENTLY CONSTITUTED in this country, is not noticeably effective in preventing crime. I differ with you in that I want to see the system reformed, not dropped entirely.

There was a wonderful single-panel cartoon done years ago by a cartoonist who is ordinarily not political, and not right-wing at all. The caption beneath it was, "A liberal about to be turned into a conservative" (I'm guessing you're aware of the modern American usages of the two terms). It shows a normal middle-aged man walking along a city sidewalk, with various stereotypical "liberal" cues the artist put there so you "get it": a beard and somewhat longish hair, beads, a peace symbol on his t-shirt. He is strolling along, carefree and whistling to himself. A few steps ahead, out of his sight but not ours, two street thugs are hiding in a doorway, about to jump him . . .

Funny, but a lousy way to be introduced to the reality of predatory criminals or to have one's attitudes changed. Here's wishing better luck to you guys.
I'll leave the rest of the discussion to y'all.

Go have a look at how the rest of the world (in particular the Nordic countries) approach crime and punishment - maybe you might learn something....

[husaberg]

However, There are a very small subset of Criminals, even amongst the Norwegians (Anders Brevic anyone?) who pose such a risk to society and whose guilt is not the subject of courtroom debate, but as close to absolute fact as possible, that I feel should receive the Death Penalty, not for the purposes of Revenge, but simply put - they are too dangerous to be allowed to live.

And should the Death Penalty be administered, it should be quick, efficient, Painless and without causing unnecessary harm - the object of the penalty is not to punish the individual, but to remove the risk that they pose.

There is the rub, The issue is how these are identified.

[TheDemonLord]

There is the rub, The issue is how these are identified.

Well, for the class of Criminal that I would submit for execution - there is no doubt as to their offending - Multiple instances, backed up by multiple bits of physical (not circumstantial evidence) as opposed to Criminals who committed a one-off act and whose conviction was due more to clever lawyering than sound physical evidence.

[Akzle]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/09...BtCzoQTZjJ3ADQ


uh oh.

[Big Dog]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/09...BtCzoQTZjJ3ADQ


uh oh.

Easy to say because I am not on death row, but I personally favour a .22 to the back of the head. Shit if I ever do anything bad enough to deserve it I will pull the trigger myself.

[Daffyd]

It would be appropriate for that bastard in Auckland that beat his partner's kid to death with a piece of 4x2! Maybe even too good for him.

[Shaun Harris]

when ever murder takes place

when ever child fukin takes place

when ever granny rapeing takes place- Are my 3 first desires for it to re instated- Loose the scum forever, and spend there prison money ( Approx $ 70K per year ) on health and education to start with. Also bring back the birch in down town central for the lesser, yet direct theft, abuse etc of scociety

[scumdog]

when ever murder takes place

when ever child fukin takes place

when ever granny rapeing takes place- Are my 3 first desires for it to re instated- Loose the scum forever, and spend there prison money ( Approx $ 70K per year ) on health and education to start with. Also bring back the birch in down town central for the lesser, yet direct theft, abuse etc of scociety

Seems fair enough.
But the appeal courts would be chocka with "I didn't murder nobody" types.

[mashman]

Seems fair enough.
But the appeal courts would be chocka with "I didn't murder nobody" types.

In which case, and to save the courts time and effort etc... desperate times call for desperate measures.

[RDJ]

Seems fair enough.
But the appeal courts would be chocka with "I didn't murder nobody" types.

There is certainly an uptick in the ranks of the "Dindo Nuffin" clan in recent years. Even when they are caught in the act.

A society which will stand for anything stands for nothing.

Conviction for the crime of murder in New Zealand often sees murderers back in society within 10 years.

The legislation states that a minimum of 10 years must be served... but many murderers only serve that minimum. And of course murderers under 19 don't even have to serve the 10 years.

Conclusion: We in NZ are not serious about crime and punishment.

[98tls]

We havent been serious about it for decades.Worked this morning and whilst having a cuppa read an article re some fucking asian that had a thing going on facebook or similar re driving drunk people home all good i guess until the piece of shit picks up some young girl so wasted she joes out in the back seat so the monkey whips out her tits starts taking pics then decides to have a go at shagging her,she wakes up and does the runner...cops catch up with him he goes to court and gets fined $1000 and loses the ability to drive his car for 3 months. Would imagine the girls father would like to give the judge a smack in the mouth.