Flag?

[gjm]

In the beginning, there was the Labour Party and they said "Let's change the flag." Then they saw what it would cost and said "Actually, there are better things to spend the money on." At that time, some ex-pat US banker who had returned to his council house in NZ said "Changing the flag is a waste of money." And lo, his words were heard, and they were good, and the flag change idea did go away.

(Fast forward...)

And so the big companies of the world did come to the governments and said "We want more money. Ah, sorry, that's not what we meant. We wish to extend trading opportunities to those countries not currently controlled by us, sorry, not currently able to take advantage of the much wider world market for continued growth and prosperity (of the already very rich)."

And the governments looked upon this, saw opportunities, and said "This will be good. Let us write The Agreement." And the companies did respond, saying "We wish to help - here's one we prepared earlier. Have a quick read... It's just standard stuff."

Then the pesky proletariat did learn of the plans, and heard whispers of Bad Things that were included in The Agreement but not being openly discussed. And the proletariat were mightily perturbed, and did complain long, lound and bitterly. They took to the streets worldwide. And the governments looked on this and thought "Shit. This isn't going according to plan. Give them something else to think about."

So it was that in New Zealand the National (oxymoron) Party did rack their collective brains, and came up with an old idea that no-one remembered: change the flag. "It will focus public opinion away from something we really want to do, and let us get on with The Important Things those pesky citizens don't need to know about." [In future years people archivists will look upon this and say "How the fuck did they get away with that again? First the fish and the GCSB spying, and now this!"]

And lo, John Key went forward and said "I've had a great idea to bring the country together - let's change the flag!" while muttering behind his hand "Frankly I don't give a flying fuck either way so long as we get The Agreement signed."

And the strategists came forward and said "We need to ensure the success of The Agreement so the flag changing process must take a long time. We cannot make this decision ourselves for even with our slothful ways, it would be over too quickly. And the whimsical ways of the populace will change too quickly, bringing us more grief about The Agreement. We need to ensure no decision can be made quickly... Prepare the emergency Committee, and have the loyal TV ferret say what a wonderful idea it is. That'll sort it."

And so it was that the Committee [something the archivists will refer to and describe as an entity with more than three legs and no brain] came to be.

And the strategists looked upon this, and it was good. Too good. The process was still too quick!

"Let's ask the people if they want to change the flag! It'll obscure our intentions further, give them something other than The Agreement to talk about, and take their minds off the national (National?) shafting they'll get at the hands of international business. It should cost money... Not too much and not too little. Say... $26m. Polls say it'll not happen so we don't need to worry about actually doing anything (collective sigh of relief), and in the meantime the Committee can have lots of lunches and nice hotel rooms to stay in."

And the word was passed down. And so it came to be.

[oldrider]

In the beginning, there was the Labour Party and they said "Let's change the flag." Then they saw what it would cost and said "Actually, there are better things to spend the money on." At that time, some ex-pat US banker who had returned to his council house in NZ said "Changing the flag is a waste of money." And lo, his words were heard, and they were good, and the flag change idea did go away.

(Fast forward...)

And so the big companies of the world did come to the governments and said "We want more money. Ah, sorry, that's not what we meant. We wish to extend trading opportunities to those countries not currently controlled by us, sorry, not currently able to take advantage of the much wider world market for continued growth and prosperity (of the already very rich)."

And the governments looked upon this, saw opportunities, and said "This will be good. Let us write The Agreement." And the companies did respond, saying "We wish to help - here's one we prepared earlier. Have a quick read... It's just standard stuff."

Then the pesky proletariat did learn of the plans, and heard whispers of Bad Things that were included in The Agreement but not being openly discussed. And the proletariat were mightily perturbed, and did complain long, lound and bitterly. They took to the streets worldwide. And the governments looked on this and thought "Shit. This isn't going according to plan. Give them something else to think about."

So it was that in New Zealand the National (oxymoron) Party did rack their collective brains, and came up with an old idea that no-one remembered: change the flag. "It will focus public opinion away from something we really want to do, and let us get on with The Important Things those pesky citizens don't need to know about." [In future years people archivists will look upon this and say "How the fuck did they get away with that again? First the fish and the GCSB spying, and now this!"]

And lo, John Key went forward and said "I've had a great idea to bring the country together - let's change the flag!" while muttering behind his hand "Frankly I don't give a flying fuck either way so long as we get The Agreement signed."

And the strategists came forward and said "We need to ensure the success of The Agreement so the flag changing process must take a long time. We cannot make this decision ourselves for even with our slothful ways, it would be over too quickly. And the whimsical ways of the populace will change too quickly, bringing us more grief about The Agreement. We need to ensure no decision can be made quickly... Prepare the emergency Committee, and have the loyal TV ferret say what a wonderful idea it is. That'll sort it."

And so it was that the Committee [something the archivists will refer to and describe as an entity with more than three legs and no brain] came to be.

And the strategists looked upon this, and it was good. Too good. The process was still too quick!

"Let's ask the people if they want to change the flag! It'll obscure our intentions further, give them something other than The Agreement to talk about, and take their minds off the national (National?) shafting they'll get at the hands of international business. It should cost money... Not too much and not too little. Say... $26m. Polls say it'll not happen so we don't need to worry about actually doing anything (collective sigh of relief), and in the meantime the Committee can have lots of lunches and nice hotel rooms to stay in."

And the word was passed down. And so it came to be.

To be signed up in NZ in February 2016 actually --------- meanwhile --------- Which Flag?

[oldrider]

To be signed up in NZ in February 2016 actually --------- meanwhile --------- Which Flag?

Well in answer to my own question Which Flag?

Today I drove around the village to see a man about a dog - his neighbour (an avid flag flier) was boldly flying the "New" flag!

Have to say now that the money is spent and the sideshow has all but concluded - I won't be sorry to see it flying as our national symbol!

I have almost always been in the no change camp rather than the change at any cost - but!

There it was swirling comfortably and assertively in the breeze and my first thought was - YES!

So either way I will be OK with it but deep down there seems to be a subliminal niggle that I will be disappointed if we haven't moved on while we had the chance!

Must be getting old and trying to score 2nd base while still safely holding a foot on 1st base - what a chicken - I feel cheep! Go the new flag!

[Reckless]

I've always thought we should change the flag, new start and all. No disrespect to the heros of our past but times change and secondly I feel no allegiance to the queen or Britain re the union jack on our present flag. The flag chosen right from the start and the one I voted for It was that particular one or keep the old one in my mind as I didnt like the others much to the disgust of both my sons.
Came across this pic and its all in the fern Its much more prominent in this pic and is much more us as Kiwis I reckon.
Time for a change, bring it on

[Banditbandit]

The referendum is designed to fail ... we will not get a flag change.

Look at it this way - there were five flags to chose from in the first round - so any flag that got more than 20% of the vote (5 flags on a general population spread would be 20% each) is ahead of the game. In the end the results were about 40%, 41%, 8%, 5% and 1% on the first count.

There was 48.78% turn out. So with a first ballot of 40 percent, that flag received 40% of the vote of 48.78 voter turnout - or about 19.5 percent support from voters. (after the proportional reps votes were taken the wining option received just over 50% - but was the first choice of only 40% of the votors or 19% of the voting population - hardly an endorsement. )

That means that potentially 51.2 percent of the population did not vote because they did not support flag change, and a further 29.3 percent voted for other flag options. 80.5 percent either refused to chose or prefered another option.

So, when the final vote comes, a good chunk of 51.2% who did not vote in the first referendum will vote against change. Others (from the 29.3% who supported other options) will vote against change because they do not like the option (If my choice had not made it I would possibly have changed by vote to keep the curent flag).

So the chance of getting a new flag is almost zero ... it was designed to fail - either intetianally or unententionally -

John Key can now go back to the flag change supporters and say "I gave the country a choice" and he can say to the ones who want the current flag - "see nothing changed" - a win/win for Teflone John.

Pisses me off .. fucking politicians.

[Waihou Thumper]

WE WILL not change the flag!
I feel confident about that.....

[Clunge Bucket]

If you cant decide which NZ Brand Logo you want then feel free to borrow this flag for a while...I mean, you're all English anyway so why not....

[YellowDog]

WE WILL not change the flag!
I feel confident about that.....

I agree

[bogan]

The referendum is designed to fail ... we will not get a flag change.

Look at it this way - there were five flags to chose from in the first round - so any flag that got more than 20% of the vote (5 flags on a general population spread would be 20% each) is ahead of the game. In the end the results were about 40%, 41%, 8%, 5% and 1% on the first count.

There was 48.78% turn out. So with a first ballot of 40 percent, that flag received 40% of the vote of 48.78 voter turnout - or about 19.5 percent support from voters. (after the proportional reps votes were taken the wining option received just over 50% - but was the first choice of only 40% of the votors or 19% of the voting population - hardly an endorsement. )

That means that potentially 51.2 percent of the population did not vote because they did not support flag change, and a further 29.3 percent voted for other flag options. 80.5 percent either refused to chose or prefered another option.

So, when the final vote comes, a good chunk of 51.2% who did not vote in the first referendum will vote against change. Others (from the 29.3% who supported other options) will vote against change because they do not like the option (If my choice had not made it I would possibly have changed by vote to keep the curent flag).

So the chance of getting a new flag is almost zero ... it was designed to fail - either intetianally or unententionally -

John Key can now go back to the flag change supporters and say "I gave the country a choice" and he can say to the ones who want the current flag - "see nothing changed" - a win/win for Teflone John.

Pisses me off .. fucking politicians.

All that number crunching is well beside the fucking point; since the next one is a simple question, with some simple rules to follow; if more votes are for change, it changes, if not, it stays. So we couldn't give a fuck how many voted for what or not so far; you've got no fucking idea of their reasons or how they will vote in the next one. So it's not designed to fail, it's designed to be democratic.

[Oakie]

That means that potentially 51.2 percent of the population did not vote because they did not support flag change,

Mathematically yes, but that's a big assumption. There will have been all sorts of reasons for not voting. Apathy will be up there but I think also many will have seen this as just a preliminary (which it is) and will only vote in the final and decisive vote. My pick is that no more half of that 51.2% will actually vote in the final referendum and that half of them will vote for change. I think we will see a change but that less than half the voting age population will vote for it. I'm comfortable with that. That's the nature of democracy.

[Voltaire]

Aussies idea has some merit of declaring a re pub lick when the Kween dies.
Her sprogeny can just f%^K off / and shit.....
no chips













Randum comment %.......

[Waihou Thumper]

If you cant decide which NZ Brand Logo you want then feel free to borrow this flag for a while...I mean, you're all English anyway so why not...

....and half of all that heraldry came from France and Germany!
Besides...we can decide, someone has made it their swansong to leave a legacy without really asking NZ'ers....

[Clunge Bucket]

....and half of all that heraldry came from France and Germany!

Only the crap half

[husaberg]

....and half of all that heraldry came from France and Germany!

Most were even sired by some sort of Greek sailor. Called Battenberg.

[pete376403]

A flag making/selling place in Petone has three flags flying - the real NZ flag, the pretender to the throne and the aussie one. I guess they are trying to reinforce how similar the aussie one is to ours and make it look like we HAVE to change so we don't get mistaken for the other place.