Flag?

[Akzle]

I don't get it.
John Key has already publicly stated that he is in favour of changing the flag so how does his show of support for the new flag surprise anyone?
What exactly is the big deal supposed to be there?

bypass of something like due process?

[oldrider]

Careful - you are sounding like a conspiracy theorist! ----------- Like many conspiracy theorists of course - you are quite right!

Bogans response to a post (above) on the flag thread agreeing with Voltaire? - is he a red bling compulsive obsessive? - or simply a self appointed KB sensor?


Thread: Flag? - [RED] don't start that shit in this thread

So OK it's his right to comment as he wishes

[gjm]

I don't get it.
John Key has already publicly stated that he is in favour of changing the flag so how does his show of support for the new flag surprise anyone?
What exactly is the big deal supposed to be there?

And there was me thinking a government was supposed to be impartial, and doing the best it could for the people of the country they have been elected to govern.

Silly me to suppose that a personal agenda shouldn't be so publicly flaunted.

Either that, or the lapel pin has absolutely no relevance of any sort to anything whatsoever and just one of those curious coincidences that seem come up all too often at the moment.

[gjm]

Actually... I apologise for my previous post.

I'm seriously fed up with people not being able to see what the real problems are. Not the flag, and not even the TPPA. It's the smug and supercilious nature of the person we're looking to for answers. 6 chapters of the TPPA apply to trade, and 24 to corporate 'benefits' and 'activities.'

When asked how many relate to trade, John Key smiled and said 'All of them'. Then walked on before anyone could ask another question, ask for clarification, or contradict him. Do that sort of thing often enough, as he has, and you start to believe you can always get away with it.

[oldrider]

And there was me thinking a government was supposed to be impartial, and doing the best it could for the people of the country they have been elected to govern.

Silly me to suppose that a personal agenda shouldn't be so publicly flaunted.

Either that, or the lapel pin has absolutely no relevance of any sort to anything whatsoever and just one of those curious coincidences that seem come up all too often at the moment.

Curious to know just how many of those he had manufactured and who paid for them - was it all part of the perk money generated by the flag saga?

[gjm]

Curious to know just how many of those he had manufactured and who paid for them - was it all part of the perk money generated by the flag saga?

Lol

So cynical. So potentially accurate.

John Key won't be at Waitangi this year, the first time a PM has ever missed it (apparently).

[bogan]

And there was me thinking a government was supposed to be impartial, and doing the best it could for the people of the country they have been elected to govern.

Silly me to suppose that a personal agenda shouldn't be so publicly flaunted.

Either that, or the lapel pin has absolutely no relevance of any sort to anything whatsoever and just one of those curious coincidences that seem come up all too often at the moment.

Actually... I apologise for my previous post.

I'm seriously fed up with people not being able to see what the real problems are. Not the flag, and not even the TPPA. It's the smug and supercilious nature of the person we're looking to for answers. 6 chapters of the TPPA apply to trade, and 24 to corporate 'benefits' and 'activities.'

When asked how many relate to trade, John Key smiled and said 'All of them'. Then walked on before anyone could ask another question, ask for clarification, or contradict him. Do that sort of thing often enough, as he has, and you start to believe you can always get away with it.

There's some truth to those points, but, why make them when we are discussing an issue that is free of those? I think the flag debate and referendum has been conducted very democratically, the main criticism I would have would be the lack of choice (and similarity between two of the options) of the first poll, but that is largely overturned by the addition of red peak due to public support.

Bogans response to a post (above) on the flag thread agreeing with Voltaire? - is he a red bling compulsive obsessive? - or simply a self appointed KB sensor?

Thread: Flag? - [RED] don't start that shit in this thread

So OK it's his right to comment as he wishes

Perhaps I just meant your post should have some sort of content relevant to the thread, rather than bringing in the bleat brigade to throw mindless insults and detract from any meaningful discussion. The red was simply to give you that message without cluttering up the thread; ie, the exact thing the rep system is for.

[oldrider]

Perhaps I just meant your post should have some sort of content relevant to the thread, rather than bringing in the bleat brigade to throw mindless insults and detract from any meaningful discussion. The red was simply to give you that message without cluttering up the thread; ie, the exact thing the rep system is for.

As the OP on this thread do you not suppose I might have a fair idea of what the thread is supposed to be about FFS?

[bogan]

As the OP on this thread do you not suppose I might have a fair idea of what the thread is supposed to be about FFS?

No; spank, MT, and the other mods have been over this many times; the OP has no ownership of a thread. It's a community forum for discussion; this discussion is quite clearly about the flag debate.

If you've a problem with my use of the rep system there are appropriate channels to go through.

[oldrider]

No; spank, MT, and the other mods have been over this many times; the OP has no ownership of a thread. It's a community forum for discussion; this discussion is quite clearly about the flag debate.

If you've a problem with my use of the rep system there are appropriate channels to go through.

Your assumptions are amazing - I have no problem with you using the rep system simply amused at your obvious preference for colour!

Where did I claim ownership for the thread - simply claimed the position of the OP - the instigator of the thread - I.E. the flag.

My response to Voltaire was about his suggestion that the flags on the bridge becoming the norm over time has hints of conspiracy theorist!

I think he understood my meaning - he is a big boy doesn't need your protection from people like me!

[bogan]

Your assumptions are amazing - I have no problem with you using the rep system simply amused at your obvious preference for colour!

Where did I claim ownership for the thread - simply claimed the position of the OP - the instigator of the thread - I.E. the flag.

My response to Voltaire was about his suggestion that the flags on the bridge becoming the norm over time has hints of conspiracy theorist!

I think he understood my meaning - he is a big boy doesn't need your protection from people like me!

Actually, I voted for flags across the color spectrum, I find that colors are so much more than just a pigment, they are an accent to the surroundings or content.

The nit-pickery is of no relevance; the topic is flags (as was Voltaire's post), and this is not the place to complain or otherwise discuss other's use of the rep system.

Now if a mod could prune this conversation chain to PDP that would be mint.

[gjm]

There's some truth to those points, but, why make them when we are discussing an issue that is free of those? I think the flag debate and referendum has been conducted very democratically, the main criticism I would have would be the lack of choice (and similarity between two of the options) of the first poll, but that is largely overturned by the addition of red peak due to public support.

I feel, and while I'm not alone I know it isn't an exclusive view, that the democratic process would have been to ask "Do you want to change the flag" and then, if appropriate, to embark on a lengthy and ridiculous process leading to the situation we had a few months ago. Instead I feel we've had a runaround waste of time and money to distract people from the TPPA.

I have a sense of humour. honest, I do!

I just think the process has been flawed from day q, and that John Key is a smarmy self-satisfied twat. I'm pre-disposed to disbelieve whatever he says or does but try to remain dispassionate. It doesn't always work.

[bogan]

I feel, and while I'm not alone I know it isn't an exclusive view, that the democratic process would have been to ask "Do you want to change the flag" and then, if appropriate, to embark on a lengthy and ridiculous process leading to the situation we had a few months ago. Instead I feel we've had a runaround waste of time and money to distract people from the TPPA.

I have a sense of humour. honest, I do!

I just think the process has been flawed from day q, and that John Key is a smarmy self-satisfied twat. I'm pre-disposed to disbelieve whatever he says or does but try to remain dispassionate. It doesn't always work.

In which case you'd need three referendums to be properly democratic, which might not result in a change at all. So it'd be one or three for that option, or the fixed two like we went with; so I don't think there is a right/wrong call to be made on that score. I have more faith in the voting public, while I'm not happy about the amount of secrecy surrounding the TPPA negotiations, I think the public could find time to make TPPA a big issue if it was warranted; regardless of flag change or other distractions on the go.

I think this process is one of the best examples of the democratic process we should aim for, specifically because of how little dependence the outcome has on the smarmy prick that instigated it.

[Oakie]

John Key at the signing of the TPPA today. Note lapel pin.

bypass of something like due process?

And there was me thinking a government was supposed to be impartial, and doing the best it could for the people of the country they have been elected to govern. Silly me to suppose that a personal agenda shouldn't be so publicly flaunted. Either that, or the lapel pin has absolutely no relevance of any sort to anything whatsoever and just one of those curious coincidences that seem come up all too often at the moment.

Can't win can he? Gets jumped on because he can't divulge content of TPPA negotiations and then gets jumped on because he does shows his own personal opinion on the flag issue. Who'd be a politician!

Must go and google NZ flag lapel pins.

[gjm]

In which case you'd need three referendums to be properly democratic, which might not result in a change at all. So it'd be one or three for that option, or the fixed two like we went with; so I don't think there is a right/wrong call to be made on that score. I have more faith in the voting public, while I'm not happy about the amount of secrecy surrounding the TPPA negotiations, I think the public could find time to make TPPA a big issue if it was warranted; regardless of flag change or other distractions on the go.

I think this process is one of the best examples of the democratic process we should aim for, specifically because of how little dependence the outcome has on the smarmy prick that instigated it.

Why three referendums?

1. Do you want to change the flag?
2. Which one would you like?

Key is key to this. He represents the National Party, or at least the government (not necessarily the same thing) and is particularly adept at deflecting questions, not answering questions, distracting, and being able to walk away from a situation that might become difficult. Essentially - he's better at not providing information than most people, and he knows it.