Flag?

**Oakie** · 4th February 2016, 20:57

http://www.silverfernflag.org/store.html

Knock yourselves out kids.

**bogan** · 4th February 2016, 20:59

Originally Posted by gjm

Why three referendums?

Do you want to change the flag?
Which one would you like?

Key is key to this. He represents the National Party, or at least the government (not necessarily the same thing) and is particularly adept at deflecting questions, not answering questions, distracting, and being able to walk away from a situation that might become difficult. Essentially - he's better at not providing information than most people, and he knows it.

3: Do you approve changing to this flag that was the most popular?

Otherwise you might end up with a flag only 30% or less of NZ actually want to change to; which doesn't sound very democratic at all.

So which are the questions on the flag topic that he evades etc could be a problem to the simple and open choice we have to vote on?

**gjm** · 4th February 2016, 21:09

Originally Posted by bogan

3: Do you approve changing to this flag that was the most popular?

Otherwise you might end up with a flag only 30% or less of NZ actually want to change to; which doesn't sound very democratic at all.

So which are the questions on the flag topic that he evades etc could be a problem to the simple and open choice we have to vote on?

Option 3 is not required. Do you want to change? No. game over. Or Yes - choose the new flag. Job done.
We currently have a situation where the challenging flag commands significantly less than 30% of Kiwi's preferential votes, without having been pitted against the current flag! And then it's only in because countbacks were needed to assess 2nd and 3rd choices.

A waste of everyone's time effort and money. My time too - I'll be voting in the next round but shouldn't need to.

**bogan** · 4th February 2016, 21:27

Originally Posted by gjm

Option 3 is not required. Do you want to change? No. game over. Or Yes - choose the new flag. Job done.
We currently have a situation where the challenging flag commands significantly less than 30% of Kiwi's preferential votes, without having been pitted against the current flag! And then it's only in because countbacks were needed to assess 2nd and 3rd choices.

A waste of everyone's time effort and money. My time too - I'll be voting in the next round but shouldn't need to.

Yet the choice of new flag might only be the preferred flag for 30 % or less; do you need me to go through the numbers for that?

Exactly, and now we decide if that 30 % preferred option is preferred by the majority to our current flag; this is precisely why the last question must be old vs preferred new.

So, there's no actual problem with the way it has been run, just that you didn't want the question asked for n the first place.

**oldrider** · 4th February 2016, 21:52

Originally Posted by Oakie

http://www.silverfernflag.org/store.html

Knock yourselves out kids.

It's the way this and the cost of it was foisted upon us that I have most objections to!

It smacks at contrived political diversion and preconceived outcome expectations all the way!

However - I like the new flag and will be disappointed now if we go to all this expense and don't move forward - I think (and now hope) it's a done deal! - Fuck it!

So will these guys - eh Oakie! http://www.silverfernflag.org/store.html

(OK Bogan this is me too: just that you didn't want the question asked for in the first place.)

**MarkH** · 5th February 2016, 21:02

Originally Posted by Akzle

bypass of something like due process?

You might have to explain that one to me, I'm not able to see how JK wearing a pin bypasses anything.

Originally Posted by gjm

And there was me thinking a government was supposed to be impartial, and doing the best it could for the people of the country they have been elected to govern.

Silly me to suppose that a personal agenda shouldn't be so publicly flaunted.

Either that, or the lapel pin has absolutely no relevance of any sort to anything whatsoever and just one of those curious coincidences that seem come up all too often at the moment.

Politicians express opinions all the time.
Changing to the proposed new flag would be good for the people of this country.

**MarkH** · 5th February 2016, 21:05

Originally Posted by gjm

Option 3 is not required. Do you want to change? No. game over. Or Yes - choose the new flag. Job done.
We currently have a situation where the challenging flag commands significantly less than 30% of Kiwi's preferential votes, without having been pitted against the current flag! And then it's only in because countbacks were needed to assess 2nd and 3rd choices.

A waste of everyone's time effort and money. My time too - I'll be voting in the next round but shouldn't need to.

You are incorrect there sir.

Do you want to change the flag?
It depends on what to. Seriously, I couldn't give any answer to this that means anything unless I first knew what we would get if we did change the flag.

What is needed is to make a decision on what flag we would change to if we were to change flags and then ask "do you want to change our flag to this?"
That would be the only way this thing would work.

**Akzle** · 6th February 2016, 02:50

Originally Posted by MarkH

You might have to explain that one to me, I'm not able to see how JK wearing a pin bypasses anything.

Politicians express opinions all the time.

the perception of* due process.
Any statement prefaced "well i think", fine.
But for someone (jk) with an agenda (he started the shennannigans yeah) and a history of pushing through what he wants in the face of public opposition, it's a poor look.

Changing to the proposed new flag would be good for the people of this country.

errrrr. How??

**gsxr** · 6th February 2016, 03:13

Originally Posted by MarkH

You are incorrect there sir.

Do you want to change the flag?
It depends on what to. Seriously, I couldn't give any answer to this that means anything unless I first knew what we would get if we did change the flag.

What is needed is to make a decision on what flag we would change to if we were to change flags and then ask "do you want to change our flag to this?"
That would be the only way this thing would work.

The question is why do we NEED to ask the question of a change of flag.

**haydes55** · 6th February 2016, 05:58

Originally Posted by gsxr

The question is why do we NEED to ask the question of a change of flag.

Because out flag is constantly confused with Australia's. To the point where a lot of people just think new zealand is just a state of Australia.

That and out current flag is pretty ugly.

**bogan** · 6th February 2016, 06:23

Originally Posted by gsxr

The question is why do we NEED to ask the question of a change of flag.

Democracy.

**Oakie** · 6th February 2016, 08:20

Originally Posted by gsxr

The question is why do we NEED to ask the question of a change of flag.

The same reason we might ask the question, "do I need to update my bike?"

**pete376403** · 7th February 2016, 21:50

Originally Posted by haydes55

Because out flag is constantly confused with Australia's.

really? I've never had a problem telling them apart. f'rinstance four stars is not the same as 6 stars. Also the NZ flag dates from 1902 - the Aussie design dates from 1934, but didn't officially become the Australian flag until 1954, so 32 years later and the best they can come up with is a knock-off of ours.

http://www.differencebetween.com/dif...-zealand-flag/

**Oakie** · 7th February 2016, 21:57

Originally Posted by pete376403

really? I've never had a problem telling them apart. f'rinstance four stars is not the same as 6 stars. Also the NZ flag dates from 1902 - the Aussie design dates from 1934, but didn't officially become the Australian flag until 1954, so 32 years later and the best they can come up with is a knock-off of ours.

http://www.differencebetween.com/dif...-zealand-flag/

Pretty sure that Aussies and Kiwis can tell the difference. It's the other 194 countries (or 193 depending on how you classify Taiwan) that can get confused.