Flag?

[MarkH]

[John Key] "sounds like he's panicking. He's actually using sort of fear tactics, saying 'this is your last chance if you don't change the flag.'"
"But you know, when you're running with a fetish of a change and the people don't agree with you, including half the people in your political party, then you're on a hiding to nothing frankly."

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/politi...-scare-tactics

What a load of shit!

I'd be surprised if JK is wrong, with all the whiners going on and on about the waste of 26m I can't see any chance of another referendum on this matter within the next couple of decades.
This idea that the proposed flag isn't what you really want so you should reject it and wait for a better flag to choose is a bit silly, we don't go having a referendum every 5 years to consider what to change our flag to, this is the ONLY time in the 48 years of my life that I've seen the opportunity to vote on a flag change.

I suspect that anyone who thinks JK is wrong about this is rather delusional.

[MarkH]

Someone else's opinion.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post...nging-the-flag

Which pretty much covers it for me.

When is March 4th, again? Friday?

#1 is really retarded
Not voting to change because there isn't a consensus for change? Well, if over 50% of voters voted for a change then how would that NOT be a consensus for a change?

#11 is interesting, to me the most pathetic arguments have come from the opponents to changing the flag.
I've seen some seriously stupid logic from the anti-change crowd including calling someone disrespectful for promoting change - I have no idea whatsoever how that is in any way disrespectful or even to whom or to what it is supposed to be disrespectful to.
I've seen the idea that to honour the soldiers who fought for this country we shouldn't change the flag - what war did they fight to ensure our flag would never change?
Now we can add this list of 11 reasons for voting against change as another ridiculous anti-change argument that wants me even more to support change.

[Katman]

This idea that the proposed flag isn't what you really want so you should reject it and wait for a better flag to choose is a bit silly, we don't go having a referendum every 5 years to consider what to change our flag to, this is the ONLY time in the 48 years of my life that I've seen the opportunity to vote on a flag change.

Are you really suggesting that people should vote to change the flag even if they don't like the new design?

[Woodman]

Are you really suggesting that people should vote to change the flag even if they don't like the new design?

I say yes. The 26 million is spent pretty much whether we change the flag or not, so we may as well get something different. Again it is just a pattern on a sheet.

[Madness]

I can't see any chance of another referendum on this matter within the next couple of decades.

Excellent!

[Katman]

I say yes. The 26 million is spent pretty much whether we change the flag or not, so we may as well get something different. Again it is just a pattern on a sheet.

[bogan]

I've seen the idea that to honour the soldiers who fought for this country we shouldn't change the flag - what war did they fight to ensure our flag would never change?

I heard rumour they fought for our freedom, democracy and such things; you could almost say what they fought for, is for us to be able to change things like the flag...

Are you really suggesting that people should vote to change the flag even if they don't like the new design?

I think he is suggesting to compare only those two flags in the running, just because you think a third flag would be better, doesn't mean you shouldn't pick between the two options we have based on the idea the choice is more likely to present itself later if it does not change this time around.

[Katman]

I think he is suggesting to compare only those two flags in the running, just because you think a third flag would be better, doesn't mean you shouldn't pick between the two options we have based on the idea the choice is more likely to present itself later if it does not change this time around.

I'm actually in the enviable position of not giving a fuck whichever way the decision goes - it will be the will of the people. (I certainly hope that there's a better voter turn out than the 48% that decided the first referendum though).

I don't even know if I can be fuck bothering to vote. There's far more important shit going on in the world today than whether we should have a new flag. Unfortunately most of us seem too fucking stupid to notice.

Personally I can't think of one compelling reason to change the flag and can only think of two compelling reasons why the question should probably have stayed mute. The first would probably only matter to those whose lives the 26 million could have saved and the second is the ugly divisiveness it has brought out in us.

I do wonder though how much extra it is going to cost if we do have to implement a change.

[bogan]

and the second is the ugly divisiveness it has brought out in us.

Which is a pity, but it does suggest the NZ public are not really mature enough to get away from a representative democracy, to one in which we have more direct input.

[Woodman]

I'm actually in the envious position of not giving a fuck whichever way the decision goes - it will be the will of the people. (I certainly hope that there's a better voter turn out than the 48% that decided the first referendum though).

I don't even know if I can be fuck bothering to vote. There's far more important shit going on in the world today than whether we should have a new flag. Unfortunately most of us seem too fucking stupid to notice.

Personally I can't think of one compelling reason to change the flag and can only think of two compelling reasons why the question should probably have stayed mute. The first would probably only matter to those whose lives the 26 million could have saved and the second is the ugly divisiveness it has brought out in us.

I do wonder though how much extra it is going to cost if we do have to implement a change.

Ugly diviseveness? Where? i have talked to many people about it, and whille the subject may generate a bit of lively debate, "ugly divisiveness" would be drawing a very very very long bow indeed.

[bogan]

Ugly diviseveness? Where? i have talked to many people about it, and whille the subject may generate a bit of lively debate, "ugly divisiveness" would be drawing a very very very long bow indeed.

People were saying bad things about richie, mate...

Seriously though, it's the focus on all the irrelevant but loosely related parts to the debate that is the ugly bit. This 'waste of money', 'JK's a dick', 'process is a farce', I mean did you even see those 11 points some fuckwit made up?

[Woodman]

People were saying bad things about richie, mate...

Seriously though, it's the focus on all the irrelevant but loosely related parts to the debate that is the ugly bit. This 'waste of money', 'JK's a dick', 'process is a farce', I mean did you even see those 11 points some fuckwit made up?

Why would you even take notice of someone who says bad things about Richie? They are obviously fuckwits. Negative fuckwits.

[Katman]

Seriously though, it's the focus on all the irrelevant but loosely related parts to the debate that is the ugly bit. This 'waste of money', 'JK's a dick', 'process is a farce', I mean did you even see those 11 points some fuckwit made up?

That's the one positive about the question being raised though - we get to see you at your most ridiculous, smarmy best.

[bogan]

That's the one positive about the question being raised though - we get to see you at your most ridiculous, smarmy best.

That sounds like some sort of ugly divisiveness...

We, as citizenry, have not distinguished ourselves. We, will not do so until we gain the capability to rationally evaluate issues from an unselfish viewpoint. And we certainly won't get there by pointing fingers and blaming (and in the worst cases, insulting) others.

[Voltaire]

What a load of shit!

I'd be surprised if JK is wrong, with all the whiners going on and on about the waste of 26m I can't see any chance of another referendum on this matter within the next couple of decades.
This idea that the proposed flag isn't what you really want so you should reject it and wait for a better flag to choose is a bit silly, we don't go having a referendum every 5 years to consider what to change our flag to, this is the ONLY time in the 48 years of my life that I've seen the opportunity to vote on a flag change.

I suspect that anyone who thinks JK is wrong about this is rather delusional.

Name the last 5 referendums..... John Key does not give a shit about the flag but hope the 'sheeple' are distracted enough to think they have some say.
48 years, and your big day is voting for a flag