Needing help with gravel driveway riding on sports bikes

[Katiepie]

I am putting up my hand asking for advice - well aware that people are going to tell me that I am retarded and a useless rider, the same old crap when I genuinely ask for advice.

But... I do need advice as I have lost a hell of a lot of confidence lately and as a result my bike is now basically stuck up the top of my driveway for winter until the ground dries out again. And that is not suiting me very well as I want to be commuting on my bike as much as possible to save on transport costs.

I would appreciate some advice as to how best approach getting up and down my rural gravel driveway on my R6.

I manage ok in the drier months, but with the rain and moisture on the ground I have lost all my confidence after almost coming off last time I came home from work on it.

A few of you will know my driveway. Perhaps only 80m long, gravel from the road edge where you turn in mixed with concrete, then it curves and starts to incline with gravel, tyre ruts and then the incline gets steeper when it straightens out. About half way up where the incline is at its steepest the gravel has mostly washed away and I'm left with clay in the tyre ruts. My neighbour who "maintains" the drive rakes all the loose gravel with his quad bike into the tyre ruts and the gravel is chucky and some of it quite large. The car slides on the wet clay trying to get up but there are still specks of gravel just outside of the tyre track.

I would feel a lot happier about this if I had more room to get my line from the road entry but I find I have to go from one tyre track across to the other as I get around the first bend due to the pot holes further up.

I'm not confident with the bike moving so much below me and it makes me really unsettled with the rear tyre slipping so much as I try to get up and over the brow of this hill when I hit large chunks of gravel, then onto clay. I'm trying my best to look ahead to the top of the drive, and loosen my grip on the bars and allow the bike to move. But I really am getting worse each time I do it (and the driveway is getting worse each winter unfortunately). With some decent pot holes I sometimes loose the constant power to the throttle and its bloody hard to get it back in time when I do.

Would appreciate some things I can try to get up it with a little more control or confidence. Going down it is ok - unless I come across a car coming up which happened 2 weeks ago. I touched the rear break thinking it was the better one to use doing downhill on gravel, but only narrowly stopped it going over, and even with front breaking I couldn't bring the bike to a stop on the steep part heading straight for the car. Was incredibly thankful the driver could see me skidding out of control and managed to drive up the bank enough to let me pass as there wasn't much of another option at that point in time.

I'm happy to ride in the cold and rain and dark. It doesn't worry me at all. What scares the fuck out of me in my driveway in winter. And I know it shouldn't be something that has that much control over me. I have lived here for 4.5 years - imagine I will be here for at least that again. The driveway is not changing any time soon, nor is my choice of bike. So I need to figure this out. Will more speed help me in my approach?

Have a slight block about falling off for some reason.

Appreciate any help in advance.

[jellywrestler]

I am putting up my hand asking for advice - well aware that people are going to tell me that I am retarded and a useless rider, the same old crap when I genuinely ask for advice.

But... I do need advice as I have lost a hell of a lot of confidence lately and as a result my bike is now basically stuck up the top of my driveway for winter until the ground dries out again. And that is not suiting me very well as I want to be commuting on my bike as much as possible to save on transport costs.

I would appreciate some advice as to how best approach getting up and down my rural gravel driveway on my R6.

I manage ok in the drier months, but with the rain and moisture on the ground I have lost all my confidence after almost coming off last time I came home from work on it.

A few of you will know my driveway. Perhaps only 80m long, gravel from the road edge where you turn in mixed with concrete, then it curves and starts to incline with gravel, tyre ruts and then the incline gets steeper when it straightens out. About half way up where the incline is at its steepest the gravel has mostly washed away and I'm left with clay in the tyre ruts. My neighbour who "maintains" the drive rakes all the loose gravel with his quad bike into the tyre ruts and the gravel is chucky and some of it quite large. The car slides on the wet clay trying to get up but there are still specks of gravel just outside of the tyre track.

I would feel a lot happier about this if I had more room to get my line from the road entry but I find I have to go from one tyre track across to the other as I get around the first bend due to the pot holes further up.

I'm not confident with the bike moving so much below me and it makes me really unsettled with the rear tyre slipping so much as I try to get up and over the brow of this hill when I hit large chunks of gravel, then onto clay. I'm trying my best to look ahead to the top of the drive, and loosen my grip on the bars and allow the bike to move. But I really am getting worse each time I do it (and the driveway is getting worse each winter unfortunately). With some decent pot holes I sometimes loose the constant power to the throttle and its bloody hard to get it back in time when I do.

Would appreciate some things I can try to get up it with a little more control or confidence. Going down it is ok - unless I come across a car coming up which happened 2 weeks ago. I touched the rear break thinking it was the better one to use doing downhill on gravel, but only narrowly stopped it going over, and even with front breaking I couldn't bring the bike to a stop on the steep part heading straight for the car. Was incredibly thankful the driver could see me skidding out of control and managed to drive up the bank enough to let me pass as there wasn't much of another option at that point in time.

I'm happy to ride in the cold and rain and dark. It doesn't worry me at all. What scares the fuck out of me in my driveway in winter. And I know it shouldn't be something that has that much control over me. I have lived her for 4.5 years - imagine I will be here for at least that again. The driveway is not changing any time soon, nor is my choice of bike. So I need to figure this out. Will more speed help me in my approach?

Have a slight block about falling off for some reason.

Appreciate any help in advance.

grab a smaller bike and do it again and again till you gain confidence, then once you've mastered it push the limits, and try things that may occur on your big bike so when they do occur you've got the answer.

[Gremlin]

Pic of the driveway?

My boss has had a few moments on gravel years ago and continues to hate it through to now. Last year he did buy a more dirt orientated bike to get out and explore more gravel, gain some confidence etc, and that's probably one of your best ways forward (find a friend with one, take it for a spin etc). You won't worry so much about your shiny fairings getting scratch, and besides, dirt/adventure bikes are meant to be dropped

This will help with your confidence, and if you cast your mind back to when you were learning... it was likely that as you gained confidence you began to make progress... no different when acquiring another skill set.

Depending on the driveway, clay is a right bitch at the best of times, even with the right bike and knobbly tyres. Some momentum (if possible) is going to be your friend, and stopping can make it worse. When descending, you were correct to use the rear brake. Sports bikes always have a stronger front brake, but using this too much can cause you to lock the front, tuck, and down you go. The rear will lock more easily, but a slide is easier to control as you can still steer.

If playing on another bike isn't possible, then try to find some more friendly gravel to ride on. It is normal for a bike to move around on gravel, purely because the surface you're riding on isn't solid and will move around. Through experience you'll learn what is normal movement and what isn't...

[BMWST?]

perhaps a little work on the drive too.Is your neighbour approacheable on this?

[T.W.R]

Presumptions says you're doing it mostly in 1st gear try 2nd so there's less on/off throttle action....steady power makes for a more stable ride

[Katiepie]

perhaps a little work on the drive too.Is your neighbour approacheable on this?

I rent, as does the neighbour at the top of my drive. It took me 2 years for my landlord to fix my leaking hot-water cylinder and its cheap rent - so driveway is simply "part of the deal".

As for the one neighbour who owns and "maintains" the shared driveway - he has threatened to shoot my dogs, beeped his horn for me to move off the driveway when I was on crutches in the halo trying to take my rubbish out in a wheelbarrow in the rain and I'm quite sure he has people held captive in his dungeon in the bottom of his imitation castle.

So alas no, not particularly approachable about this. Funny enough he is a "biker" too - but has a duel purpose with knobblies on it so doesn't give a toss about a little gravel or clay or pot holes.

I work for a road-works company now, been there for a couple of months, Have asked the guys to quote my land lord what it would cost to at least come and compact some gravel into the clay so it doesn't keep washing away down the slope. But don't think the landlord would ever budge on it. I have to just learn how to tackle it better.

Some good suggestions above - appreciate that guys. I know its my lack of confidence that is my biggest hindrance.

[Akzle]

nothing has traction on slick clay. except metal tracks. Get a bulldozer


find a man. Instruct him to compact some gap60 into the worst of it, lay gap20 over and rotaho cement in to the top. Not prettiest but cheapest fix.

As for the riding, just pin it. Learn to skid and bounce between patches of traction.

[Paul in NZ]

Look I hear ya... The ST is like a hippo on ice skates on gravel or at least feels like it.

Maybe on a nice day you could go rake the worst of it out? Failing that a more upright bike for the winter months?

[nzspokes]

Yerp confidence is a hard one to get past. Im not great on gravel when we are 2 up, more worried about dropping my pillion on the road. Solo I am happy on it. I ride trail bikes as well.

I would try to find some gravel that is not steep to try out. Not fast but controlled. I agree with trying second if it will work. If one of the more experienced Wellington crew could pop round one day and spot you going up and down that may well help.

Loosy goosy is the way to go. Also if you are getting a lot of wheelspin maybe a more treaded rear tyre will help.

Photo of the drive will help. Maybe there is a better line to take.

But relax, relax, relax. Let the bike do the work.

[Ocean1]

Big road tyres are never easy on gravel let alone bald wet clay, and I don't know many that are confident on sports bike rubber in gravel.

Yes a touch more speed will help keep it pointed wherever you wouldn't have enough traction to maintain a slow walk. Trouble is whereas the gravel should be OK going down having to carry speed over the clay which sees you unable to stop before the road isn't a good idea. I'd say you really have to do something about the surface.

All I can suggest is possibly talk to the boss about a good price for delivering some fine chip, talk to the landlord about helping with that cost and possibly even talk to the castle dude about some help spreading it on the worst parts. Hard to believe none of the above would be prepared to help out but if that's the case I'm sure we could press up a working party here to spend an hour or two on the problem.

[Maha]

Reads like the driveway needs a blade put over it and then some decent gravel added. But you're stuck with what you have so, try walking it and mentally establish the 'trouble' spots firmly in your mind, kick the bigger rocks out of the way, you don't need to hit/contend with them. Then work out where you and your bike should be when approaching those spots. Head up looking forward/second gear/look to be in the lower rut heading into that incline curve area keep the power to rear wheel constant as you can, you normally only one shot at a clay sludge incline on a sports bike Katie, if you stop, it's all over, but you probably already know that.

[george formby]

Oh dear. Nothing worse than a butt puckering bit of clay.
Some good advice already stated. #1 being get some decent gravel down.
Head up, momentum and a very steady throttle, check. Braking when it's so slick is all about balance and finesse. Counter balancing the bike to keep it upright if it slides. It only works up to a point, gravity is hard to beat.
Any hoo, my contribution. This counter balancing lark. I ride a big bike with road tires in similar conditions and it shits me, too. When it's slick I keep my weight outside of a turn or camber, keep my weight on my legs not the seat of the bike so I can compensate for any loss of traction. Basically like riding a dirt bike. Being relaxed is paramount.
Sounds like your not fazed by the bike moving on the gravel just the slippy slidey clay bit.
See if you can hit somebody up for a bit of practice on a small bike somewhere slippy. I know the ergonomics of your bike are awful for climbing around on, been in a similar situation on a Fireblade meself, but shifting your body weight still helps.
And yeah, 2nd gear may be less abrupt and controllable than 1st. A touch of clutch here and there to lift the revs if necessary so it doesn't stall.
All the best. Sounds like a bit of a challenge.
Oh, gotta be very smooth.

[caspernz]

Smooth and steady is the key, loose on the bars and weight the pegs. Practice being the key to gaining confidence. And no I don't enjoy riding on badly maintained gravel or thru rough roadworks, but with practice the nervousness fades.

[Tazz]

On the gravel comments, you could just do a strip up the left side where it's the worst instead of forking out for the whole drive. Shouldn't cost much (especially if one of your workmates will do it for a weekend cashy to help you out). If the rents cheap enough it will kinda balance out?

Otherwise I've only got terrible advice. I just couldn't get the hang of gravel on my little CBR, I couldn't even leave my feet on the pegs as the front was so squirrely, so I bought a duel sport

Second gear and feathering the clutch where you need to is good advice though.

[RDJ]

On gravel I had firmly unlearn my tendency to use the front brake much more than the rear... and, focusing on staying off the front brake and on the rear brake at slow speeds solved 90% of my problems.

The remaining 10% is I look for the rut left by car tires i.e the left 'track' and stay in that as much as is feasible.

Good luck KP.