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Thread: Different/unusual chassis

  1. #1
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    Different/unusual chassis

    There's a thread on different/unusual engines so I thought I'd start one on different chassis.

    Ray Van Steenwyk has come up with a different take on hub centre steering.

    All of the suspension is moved behind the wheel (in the attachment it's the red bits) while the triangle that holds the front wheel is rigid front to rear but the top part twists to steer (blue bit).

    It has more steering lock than other hub centre steer designs because the swing arm is mounted high on the frame leaving more clearance for the wheel.

    Looks like the biggest problem with it, other than complexity and space it takes up, is that they're eliminating the weight transfer involved with braking but weight transfer means grip. That's one of the fundamental differences between cars and bikes, the weight transference. Not understanding that is why many before, such as the Elf GP bikes, have failed.

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    https://www.motoinno.com.au/home.html
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  2. #2
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    Looks like a modern re-vamp on the V H Concept CHS from the early 90s

    Hans Gunter Helms & Klaus Vosteen called it 'Thigh Axle' concept
    minimised constructural complexity compared to existing designs at the time and fully adjustable
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mental Trousers View Post
    There's a thread on different/unusual engines so I thought I'd start one on different chassis.

    Ray Van Steenwyk has come up with a different take on hub centre steering.

    All of the suspension is moved behind the wheel (in the attachment it's the red bits) while the triangle that holds the front wheel is rigid front to rear but the top part twists to steer (blue bit).

    It has more steering lock than other hub centre steer designs because the swing arm is mounted high on the frame leaving more clearance for the wheel.

    Looks like the biggest problem with it, other than complexity and space it takes up, is that they're eliminating the weight transfer involved with braking but weight transfer means grip. That's one of the fundamental differences between cars and bikes, the weight transference. Not understanding that is why many before, such as the Elf GP bikes, have failed.


    https://www.motoinno.com.au/home.html
    funny front ends generally don't work commercially because they are different.

    I like this one best. Pretty sure it was based on an Aprilia bike.
    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    I am sure the older readers can remember this i don't know his last name but at the time it was super trick.
    I am not sure how the the rear suspension works because it looks sideways in the pic but not mentioned in the blurb.

    Some will know who Sean is I bet?



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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    funny front ends generally don't work commercially because they are different.
    Conservative attitudes are one of the problems for the funnies. But those can be overcome if one were to start winning at the highest level, as long as the rules weren't changed to ban them of course.

    One of the biggest problems though is trying to treat bike chassis dynamics like a cars, eliminating weight transfer being the worst mistake. Controlling weight transfer is good, but eliminating it means less grip on the limits no matter how well the design improves grip. In the end improving grip and behaviour + weight transferring forward = even more grip.

    Old school hub centre steering, the 1921 Ner-A-Car

    http://www.bikeexif.com/1921-ner-a-car
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mental Trousers View Post
    Conservative attitudes are one of the problems for the funnies. But those can be overcome if one were to start winning at the highest level, as long as the rules weren't changed to ban them of course.

    One of the biggest problems though is trying to treat bike chassis dynamics like a cars, eliminating weight transfer being the worst mistake. Controlling weight transfer is good, but eliminating it means less grip on the limits no matter how well the design improves grip. In the end improving grip and behaviour + weight transferring forward = even more grip.

    Old school hub centre steering, the 1921 Ner-A-Car

    http://www.bikeexif.com/1921-ner-a-car
    Yes I am familiar with it.
    I have ridden bikes with leading links and other front ends such as earles etc. They used to rise under braking lol
    I think what they missed in the 90's was it also still had to feel like a telescopic front end did.
    There was another one from an aussie that looked pretty cool in the 90's



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    Tony Foale (everybody should read his book Motorcycle Handling and Chassis Design) has some software for evaluating different front ends

    http://www.tonyfoale.com/Main.htm#FFEsoft
    Zen wisdom: No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. - obviously had KB in mind when he came up with that gem

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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    I have ridden bikes with leading links and other front ends such as earles etc. They used to rise under braking lol
    Big design whoops that.

    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    I think what they missed in the 90's was it also still had to feel like a telescopic front end did.
    Exactly. Until one of them is winning racers are going to always go back to what they know because it works.
    Zen wisdom: No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. - obviously had KB in mind when he came up with that gem

    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mental Trousers View Post
    Big design whoops that.


    Exactly. Until one of them is winning racers are going to always go back to what they know because it works.
    But it could be tuned out though with the brake arms rejigged they were very popular in the 50'as they flexed less. Not Just MV also used by BMW.
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    Saxon won a few races,
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    Britten re harshed the Girder forks.
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    From Memory White power had a single sided slider front end that showed promise in the early 90's.
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    This ribi linked fork was used in a number of works MX bikes in the 80's including Honda
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    This ribi linked fork was used n a number of works MX bikes in the 80's including Honda

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That ones pretty cool. A leading link with parallelogram linkages above it.
    Zen wisdom: No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. - obviously had KB in mind when he came up with that gem

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mental Trousers View Post
    That ones pretty cool. A leading link with parallelogram linkages above it.
    I have some stuff here on it I could probably dig it out he did a few designs I think O'mara raced it and liked it.
    Last edited by husaberg; 2nd July 2015 at 13:18. Reason: sorry it was Decoster



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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    I have some stuff here on it I could probably dig it out he did a few designs I think O'mara raced it and liked it.
    Test riders always seem to like the various funny front ends on prototype bikes even though they're not pushing them to the absolute limits.

    Why'd Honda stop using that one?
    Zen wisdom: No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. - obviously had KB in mind when he came up with that gem

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mental Trousers View Post
    Test riders always seem to like the various funny front ends on prototype bikes even though they're not pushing them to the absolute limits.

    Why'd Honda stop using that one?
    No he was racing it in US MX. edit it was Decoster
    but this was pre USD other than Simonds forks FOX had funny front ends being trailed then too
    As for Honda I don't know that bike was a Works prototype used in Japan had a rear disk valve. They had a twin as well not sure if that is what I posted.(looks like the twin)



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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    but this was pre USD other than Simonds forks FOX had funny front ends being trailed then too
    Probably ended up with forks being cheaper and riders saying the funnies felt different so they'd go back to forks.
    Zen wisdom: No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. - obviously had KB in mind when he came up with that gem

    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity

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    I love what Magpul did with the Ronin series of bikes. Not so much for the girder fork front end, but the limited production with each one taking the name of a legendary Ronin.

    http://www.the47.com/tech-specs/#about

    http://www.the47.com/the47/

    Bike #1 ran at Pikes Peak this year and scored an amazing second place

    http://blog.motorcycle.com/2015/06/2...climb-results/

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    Zen wisdom: No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. - obviously had KB in mind when he came up with that gem

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mental Trousers View Post
    Probably ended up with forks being cheaper and riders saying the funnies felt different so they'd go back to forks.
    I think it was cost and looking different.
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    Modern Mock up

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    Original Suzuki 1979
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    First Honda Version
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    Later Honda Versions
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