How safe is your workplace?

[Ocean1]

There is a lot to be said for bringing in the experts and then just getting the hell out of their way.

And fuck all intelligent to be said for anything else.

[Headbanger]

And fuck all intelligent to be said for anything else.

The issue being that the Australian legislation nominates contractors and their subcontractors to be treated in the same manner as employees and that the PCBU engaging them are to be held responsible for a fuck up.

Granted I don't know the exact form of the Australian legislation that is being adopted in NZ but it seems this line of thinking will be maintained in the legislation.

This means that you can have a strong engagement process, a strong induction and hazard management/reporting system, But if you're not monitoring the works and in a position to to stop an unsafe practice that could or does cause an injury or incident then you can and will be held responsible.

To get a contractor on site you need to review all their systems against legislation, and then monitor their works in the form of documented task observations.

One of the case studies involves a factory that engaged a contractor to repair a section of damaged roof, The contractor submitted a tender with all required documentation and won the job. The contractor then rang his mate harry and got him to do it instead.

Harry was inducted into the workplace, had a swms, started the work. The safety adviser from the factory inspected the works after setup was completed and noted that he was wearing his ppe, that a fall arrest system was in place that consisted of netting.

3 hours later Harry was picked up off the floor below and taken to hospital. The investigation found that Harry had slipped off his work boots at some stage and put on his trainers, then to get to the flashing he had removed the safety net from where it was fitted. While doing so he had slipped and fallen head first to the ground below.

The factory copped the prosecution and all three parties were fined heavily. It was proven that the factory was negligent in failing to ensure that the works were monitored and undertaken safely.

[Big Dog]

That sounds like a real head ache.

Sent via tapatalk.

[trustme]

NZ pretty much follows Aussie, so I expect our new legislation is very close to Oz. I struggle with the company being liable in Headbangers case study. Sure the contractor & his mate are in the gun , but if the employing company checked everything & then numb nuts works outside the agreed method then it is his problem, he fucked up .

Seems to me that if there is a serious accident or death the main employer is always wrong even if he has tried to do everything right. You can't win.

As an aside how did replacing work boots with trainers contribute. It used to be that structural steel riggers wore trainers rather than steel caps because they were considered safer. If you have ever clambered around on structural steel you will understand the arguement .

[Headbanger]

The removal of the work boots was evidence that the works weren't being monitored leading up to the fall.

The reports I have read is that NZ is adopting the Aussie H&S act and regulations pretty much in its entirety.

Its more then a head ache, Where I work we have around 100 employees, another 50 or so labour hire on site on any given day, and approx 100 subcontractors on the books, who also have their own subbies. we have to have competencies documented for every task they undertake, systems for all works, records of daily, weekly and monthly audits and inspections, and a selection of task observations (I ask the foreman to do 3 each a week, My safety advisers 5 or 7)

On top of all this the developer spends 4 hours a week on site going over every single document and process, right down to the service history of a generator.

Then we have a quarterly 2 day audit, where they smash us to fuck.

Fun times.

All hail the safety gods, here to rescue us from ourselves.

To take it back to the guy who previously posted about confined spaces, In the event he dies at work without a procedure in place for high risk works, and without following that procedure then whoever is paying him the commission will get it in the neck. The intended result is that they will stop their subies from taking these risks.


But, not much will change, those that have to might, those that don't give a fuck simply won't. You can look over the fence from one of our sites and its a whole different world.

[Headbanger]

I spent a number of years clambering around on steel work, The steelworkers are fools to themselves, They have at one point or another rejected pretty much all systems systems as being more dangerous even when the numbers prove them 100 percent incorrect.

Some people would rather just be hero's and die.


But again, Personally I don't give a rats what people as individuals want to do, I get employed to do what needs to be done for a company.

[Voltaire]

No one wants accidents at work ( or anytime really) but do they really think they can legislate it enough to stop them entirely.
I was traveling with an Aussie guy last year and he said one plus of using Contractors back in the day was less paperwork, now he said you may as well just get employees.
I had a painter here a couple of years back, job needed a elevating platform, couple of days later its stuck up at 5+ metres with his mate on it and he had climbed down the side of it..... had not charged it as did not have a tagged lead and did not want to ask for one.
( could not drop it down either as was over some pipework)
He could have just rung someone.....

[Grumph]

The issue being that the Australian legislation nominates contractors and their subcontractors to be treated in the same manner as employees and that the PCBU engaging them are to be held responsible for a fuck up.

Granted I don't know the exact form of the Australian legislation that is being adopted in NZ but it seems this line of thinking will be maintained in the legislation.

This means that you can have a strong engagement process, a strong induction and hazard management/reporting system, But if you're not monitoring the works and in a position to to stop an unsafe practice that could or does cause an injury or incident then you can and will be held responsible.

To get a contractor on site you need to review all their systems against legislation, and then monitor their works in the form of documented task observations.

The factory copped the prosecution and all three parties were fined heavily. It was proven that the factory was negligent in failing to ensure that the works were monitored and undertaken safely.

Observing the ChCh rebuild - where Fletchers in particular have managed the undercap jobs for EQC - by engaging subbies...who then engaged subbies...
It's been pretty apparent that poor work practices have been pretty much the norm. Poor and substandard work which is coming to light now - and many instances previously - are having to be rectified by the "prime" subbie of Fletchers - if they can find them...
Fletchers are simply distancing themselves - although they were supposed to have day to day oversight
They seem to be adamant that the subbies were not employees....
I can't see any legislation getting through here which would look like the Aussie setup.

[Headbanger]

I can't see any legislation getting through here which would look like the Aussie setup.

We wont know until its finilised

but...

http://www.business.govt.nz/worksafe/about/reform

Did you know?

Our new health and safety law is based on Australia’s. They’ve seen a 16 per cent reduction in work-related deaths since 2012 and just reported the lowest number of work-related deaths in 11 years.

The responsibilities listed down the left side of that page as far as I can see word for word Aussie legislation

[Headbanger]

For those that are preparing for the change/work in safety this will be of interest.

http://www.mangolive.com/blog-mango/...ar-recording-2

[Headbanger]

fuck me, 12 minutes into that webinar and I want to kill myself.

fuck that.

[trustme]

Observing the ChCh rebuild - where Fletchers in particular have managed the undercap jobs for EQC - by engaging subbies...who then engaged subbies...
It's been pretty apparent that poor work practices have been pretty much the norm. Poor and substandard work which is coming to light now - and many instances previously - are having to be rectified by the "prime" subbie of Fletchers - if they can find them...
Fletchers are simply distancing themselves - although they were supposed to have day to day oversight
They seem to be adamant that the subbies were not employees....
I can't see any legislation getting through here which would look like the Aussie setup.

Good luck with Fletchers. There were 2 construction companies we point blank refuse to work for. One of them was Mainzeal, the other , guess who ??. We do work on their sites if employed directly by a supplier, no way will we expose ourselves to them directly. Just finished a job on one of their sites, a months work that started in March & has just finished , might as well not have bothered.

Yes, the legislation is coming. Yes it will probably mirror Oz.

[Grumph]

Good luck with Fletchers. There were 2 construction companies we point blank refuse to work for. One of them was Mainzeal, the other , guess who ??. We do work on their sites if employed directly by a supplier, no way will we expose ourselves to them directly. Just finished a job on one of their sites, a months work that started in March & has just finished , might as well not have bothered.

Yes, the legislation is coming. Yes it will probably mirror Oz.

Personally, i hope it does. But seriously, once the government realises their exposure through Fletchers to the risks inherent in the current method of dealing with subbies, either the rebuild will be excepted or that part of the proposed laws will be watered down.

And at the time it was deal with fletchers or opt out. In the early days opting out didn't look like the way to go - but once we'd seen just what was happening I advised several to opt out. It was Sydney or the bush, make your best guess and see...

[eldog]

I struggle with the company being liable in Headbangers case study. Sure the contractor & his mate are in the gun , but if the employing company checked everything & then numb nuts works outside the agreed method then it is his problem, he fucked up .

Seems to me that if there is a serious accident or death the main employer is always wrong even if he has tried to do everything right. You can't win.

As an aside how did replacing work boots with trainers contribute. It used to be that structural steel riggers wore trainers rather than steel caps because they were considered safer. If you have ever clambered around on structural steel you will understand the arguement .

I tend to agree with you. Seen it happen here at work.
No matter what you have in place, someone will always find a way to shortcut something or do something dumb.
Generally they make an error, because they are so involved in the work they are doing they don't see the obvious.

One site I worked on they had banned ladders.
We used cherry pickers etc and scaffolding except in one case where it was impossible to do so.
So we used a ladder after discussing it with the head contractor and getting approval for that one instance and taking all reasonable precautions.
(It was far safer than trying to get scaffolding or the cheery picker in)

Its a matter of making things as safe as possible.
Its also a case of people taking responsibility and ownership of what they are doing.
We all make mistakes... sometime.
Riding a mbike its just the same thing, make self responsible. Take all practical precautions.
If you take a risk, its upto you.
Its the unknown that catches most of us noobs out.

[trustme]

Last week I was slinging 2.5 tonne loads at a height of 200 metres. Just another common garden construction site .
Speaking of boats , nip down to the maritime museum & check out the Rapaki , I've used that . ' Just a common garden construction worker , what would I know '.
Look what you have done , you've made me grumpy now.