New Zealand Flag - five-way poll

[Swoop]

WHY do they feel the need to have a referendum to vote on which of the four choices you would pick THEN "if its needed" another one later to decide if we change at all.

Remember what happened with the change to MMP?
First "choose from the following options".
Then "FPP or MMP".

The same applies here.



Just that we get "one of the three white-feathers OR the snail-trail"...

[MD]

A simple and cheaper one referendum approach would be to include the current flag in the selection along with these four wannabes and hey presto, there's your answer.

Personally I want the current flag, with it's warts and all. I usually support our Donkey PM but he's starting to pee me off lately with his obvious personal agendas coming through. The lack of the Union Jack in any of the final choices reeks of deliberate manipulation and a biased panel.

You don't rewrite history just because you are uncomfortable with it today. The Union Jack had a long history of it's own making and that in turn flowed through the people that colonised NZed, so the two are forever connected. It's called heritage and nothing to be ashamed of and discarded like a used tampon.

[Swoop]

The Union Jack had a long history of it's own making and that in turn flowed through the people that colonised NZed, so the two are forever connected.

It seems that is why there is the red/black option of the two white feather/southern X options. The red represents the Chinese colonists'...

[willytheekid]

Why are WE the ones changing our flag?


Just because Donkey and his corp minions want to make a mark on this country (Like they haven't already by selling most of it for there own personal profits!)...they use the piss weak EXCUSE!, that "Aussie's flag gets confused with ours...so WE need a new one"

How bout we look at the fuckin FACTS!! people.

In 1953 AUSTRALIA adopted a NEW flag...it was designed to be similar to our own NZ flag, (that was flying since 1902!)

http://www.ausflag.com.au/brief_history.asp

http://www.nzflag.com/history.cfm

...So, if the issue is really us having similar flags...why don't we push to get fuckin Aussie's to change there copycat flag?...WE!! flew the current NEW ZEALAND flag 50yrs fuckin yrs before them!...yet, WE are the ones who need to change??

Oh...And nearly EVERY example of other country's "Changing there flag", has been due to those country's claiming SOVEREIGNTY!, not signing up to even MORE foreign masters/rulers!(TPPA)...cos THATS what this is about...focus on the flag people!..."while we sell your arse's and basic's rights off to foreign corporate's!"...You suckas!!


So shove ya BS flag change!...I aint gonna acknowledge the change...just the blatant disrespect of our history and our democratic rights.


Keep the Flag!...Least we forget

[FROSTY:Me]

Lets put it in a way this forum will understand:

You have a big bike. A guy comes up to you on the street and says I'll swap your bike for a more appropriate bike for your lifestyle. No indication of what the replacement bike will be ... just that it will be a bike. Hmmm ... you have doubts because if you agree to swap you may get a scooter in return or you may get a Harley ... but hey, I don't like V twins. On the other hand it could be this year's coveted update of your current bike. Sweet! You're probably going to find it hard to make a decision aren't you ... and you certainly can't make an informed decision.

If however a guy comes up to you, has the same conversation as before but offers you four bikes to choose from that you can whittle down to one bike to weigh up against your existing bike then you're in a much better position aren't you. You can actually say yes or no and know what you are deciding upon.

And that's why there are two referenda.

You're welcome.

The part you completely missed out was that the person asking you to swap puts their hand out for 28 million dollars so they can draw up a list of possible swap choices for you. -still want to even think about a swap?
I can thinks of a LOT of other ways to spend 28 million.

[5ive]

It makes it more likely that a change will be voted on in the second referendum.
That's why ,in the first referendum, you should vote for the worst option,not spoil your vote.
Worst option is the black and white monkey tail/hypnoflag.This is least likely to win against the current flag.

Sounds exactly like what happened in the last general election to be honest, people complaining and not voting, or people wasting their votes trying to 'protest'

[5ive]

The part you completely missed out was that the person asking you to swap puts their hand out for 28 million dollars so they can draw up a list of possible swap choices for you. -still want to even think about a swap?
I can thinks of a LOT of other ways to spend 28 million.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how much money was wasted in total on failed referendums during the current Government's leadership - by other people/parties?

Looks like everyone's in on spending other people's money when it suits, maybe we need a referendum to make referendums bonded.

You referendum fails, you lose your bond to pay for it.

[bogan]

A simple and cheaper one referendum approach would be to include the current flag in the selection along with these four wannabes and hey presto, there's your answer.

Nah, cos then you still can get a minority percentage governing the outcome because the reaminder is split over a number of options.

The part you completely missed out was that the person asking you to swap puts their hand out for 28 million dollars so they can draw up a list of possible swap choices for you. -still want to even think about a swap?
I can thinks of a LOT of other ways to spend 28 million.

In that analogy, it would be $5; not 28 million. And for five bucks, maybe you would be curious to whether my 20 year old bike could be swapped up to something newer and sportier...

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how much money was wasted in total on failed referendums during the current Government's leadership - by other people/parties?

Looks like everyone's in on spending other people's money when it suits, maybe we need a referendum to make referendums bonded.

You referendum fails, you lose your bond to pay for it.

That's a really odd way to think about it. A referendum is just a democratic tool to find an outcome; the outcome does not effect whether the tool is wasted or not.

[Stylo]

Why are WE the ones changing our flag?


Just because Donkey and his corp minions want to make a mark on this country (Like they haven't already by selling most of it for there own personal profits!)...they use the piss weak EXCUSE!, that "Aussie's flag gets confused with ours...so WE need a new one"

How bout we look at the fuckin FACTS!! people.

In 1953 AUSTRALIA adopted a NEW flag...it was designed to be similar to our own NZ flag, (that was flying since 1902!)

http://www.ausflag.com.au/brief_history.asp

http://www.nzflag.com/history.cfm

...So, if the issue is really us having similar flags...why don't we push to get fuckin Aussie's to change there copycat flag?...WE!! flew the current NEW ZEALAND flag 50yrs fuckin yrs before them!...yet, WE are the ones who need to change??

Oh...And nearly EVERY example of other country's "Changing there flag", has been due to those country's claiming SOVEREIGNTY!, not signing up to even MORE foreign masters/rulers!(TPPA)...cos THATS what this is about...focus on the flag people!..."while we sell your arse's and basic's rights off to foreign corporate's!"...You suckas!!


So shove ya BS flag change!...I aint gonna acknowledge the change...just the blatant disrespect of our history and our democratic rights.


Keep the Flag!...Least we forget

Take a deep breath mate, I'm voting for the continuation of the current flag too.

You're right though in that the current flag we have was copied by the Aussies, not the other way around.

Cup of hot Milo and an early night aye.

[Ocean1]

That's a really odd way to think about it. A referendum is just a democratic tool to find an outcome; the outcome does not effect whether the tool is wasted or not.

How about you lose your bond if your referendum fails to get x% votes?

Democracy does have a price, and whiney arsed ideologues don't pay anywhere near their share.

[bogan]

How about you lose your bond if your referendum fails to get x% votes?

Democracy does have a price, and whiney arsed ideologues don't pay anywhere near their share.

A much better idea.

But, how about we just make referendums cheaper. Economies of scale...

I find it is often the whiney ideologues who say nah we don't need a referendum because I already know what should be done about this issue

[Ocean1]

The Union Jack had a long history of it's own making and that in turn flowed through the people that colonised NZed, so the two are forever connected. It's called heritage and nothing to be ashamed of and discarded like a used tampon.

It wasn't NZ's history though, was it?

NZ's earliest recognisable symbol was the fern, the British assigned the defaced jack later, as they did for most colonies.

[Ocean1]

But, how about we just make referendums cheaper. Economies of scale...

I find it is often the whiney ideologues who say nah we don't need a referendum because I already know what should be done about this issue

Losers deciding how we go about winning? I don't think so Nigel, giving free access to policy influence is a positive feedback loop.

[bogan]

Losers deciding how we go about winning? I don't think so Nigel, giving free access to policy influence is a positive feedback loop.

Nah I reckon it'd be alright, they're disorganised so it'd be easy for productive members of society to outweigh em when the votes are tallied.

[granstar]

Flag the flag.