F-U Auckland house prices

[Voltaire]

What prevented you from advertising it yourself & letting people through for a look?
It doesn't sound like it was a particularly difficult task that required skill or special equipment, like baking a cake, or fixing a bicycle.
I would only use an estate agent if I was a paralysed deaf mute with no wife, kids or friends.

I hear what you are saying.
I sold a house about 2 years ago and at the time thought it needed 3 new bathrooms, recarpeting,new kitchen, repainting, landscaping etc.
I interviewed a few agents and the pointy shoe BMW driving ones didn't get much of my time, I really don't like ticket clippers much.

The one I went for told me not to bother with the kitchen bathrooms or carpet and just to repaint, and make it look tidy and presentable.( this was before signing)
Similar house next door they did all the above but not any landscaping.
I had the wooden balcony replaced with glass ( it had a sea view) repainted in trendy grey, had the front yard cleared and ready lawn put down ( my school teacher mate to repaint the interior , swapped out all the old 70's light fittings and fixtures. It really did look stunning with the 12 metre glass balcony ( best 6K spent)
I engaged the Agent, she had me put all the surplus crap into storage, had awesome photo taken and got lots of punters thru the door at all hours.
All up I spent 30k on doing the house up and got top dollar.
Their fees were 3% and I was not unhappy paying out $30k


For the rest of the country a few pics with your phone, and place an add on Trade Me should do the trick.

I used to do my own car servicing too, but these days I just take it into the shop as I have better things to do.
Saying goodbye to my VW van soon as moving on to disposable jap cars , over spending a grand each WOF.

[Voltaire]

Voltys Tips For Selling Houses in Auckland:


Make it look really good from the street- punters only spend 15 minutes on site, rest is on line looking.

Get rid of all the crap as it makes the rooms look bigger- if you can fit a double bed in its a double bedroom.

Bunnings do a great range of cheap light fittings and door handles- don't waste money on fancy Italian or German stuff

Staging is worth the money-Less is more-you want the punter to imagine him or her living there, so get rid of all the pics of Granny and the Dog.

Excellent photography is worth the money- and now you can get drone pics with a video and soundtrack. ( think flight of the Valkyries, love the smell of Auckland in the morning, smells like

money)

Interview the Agent, dismiss ones who can't give you a value as that's their frikken job. fine line between them driving a Corolla and turning up in a convertible Mercedes)

For Auckland they need to have a Mandarin speaking assistant. Despite what that Idiot JK says Chinese are taking their money out of China as fast as they can and buying property in the

west. You only have to look beyond that useless Herald and what passes as the News to find that out.

I have no tips for buying in Auckland and looking at Hamilton and the BOP now.

Who would move here when as pointed out earlier the average mortgage is 600K, only winners are Estate Agents, and the Council who can fund their underground trains and billion dollar tunnels....
rant over.

[Maha]

What prevented you from advertising it yourself & letting people through for a look?
It doesn't sound like it was a particularly difficult task that required skill or special equipment, like baking a cake, or fixing a bicycle.
I would only use an estate agent if I was a paralysed deaf mute with no wife, kids or friends.

We had a go at selling our house privately because the chap across the road sold his in online in 10-14 days, we only had one through, a young Brethren guy. Because of the size of the house, they really wanted it several years earlier when we didn't want to sell it, it was a tad over 300sqm on a 900 sqm section. The house across the road was a standard 3 bed Keith Hay type home, someone paid 300K for it as a rental.

We went to auction with the local agent that sold us the house, always said we would never do that, but we did, settled on a reserve price and it sold on the day for 3K over the reserve price, the experience was awesome to be honest, everyone got what we wanted, everyone was happy.

[HenryDorsetCase]

love the smell of Auckland in the morning, smells like money

That is genius. Seriously that is someones signature. Hell I would put that on a business card if I worked there.

For Auckland they need to have a Mandarin speaking assistant. Despite what that Idiot JK says Chinese are taking their money out of China as fast as they can and buying property in the west

This. It is absolutely fascinating.

Four of our nine staff in the new place are fluent Mandarin/Cantonese speakers with a bit of Korean and such.

I love my new job.

[Voltaire]

That is genius. Seriously that is someones signature. Hell I would put that on a business card if I worked there.




This. It is absolutely fascinating.

Four of our nine staff in the new place are fluent Mandarin/Cantonese speakers with a bit of Korean and such.

I love my new job.

I'm not sure my client would appreciate that on my business card

But hey, here is good. Auckland Rocks

[neels]

What prevented you from advertising it yourself & letting people through for a look?
It doesn't sound like it was a particularly difficult task that required skill or special equipment, like baking a cake, or fixing a bicycle.
I would only use an estate agent if I was a paralysed deaf mute with no wife, kids or friends.

Put quite simply, I'm too lazy.

They did the running around signing up the paperwork, escorting building inspectors through the place, and the backwards and forwards chasing up on the details before confirmation of the contract. Easier having them do it than the lawyer and I'd rather be at my day job than selling houses to people, so figured it was worth the $5k for an agent.

[Pixie]

Jealous? Much?

Jealous of being in hock to the bank up to 30 meters above your eyeballs?
Not likely.

[TheDemonLord]

C'mon dude, you were gifted a rung on the ladder...

I'd step back and stop blowing that trumpet, you've had it a lot easier, and done a lot less than others have done/are doing.

Gifted is a very long stretch - I still have to pay a 100% mortgage (if I had an actual cash deposit of 20%, my mortgage payments drop by $200-$300 a fortnight)

The reality is that if your family own a house, and they go guarantor on the deposit - is it such a risk to them:

lets assume a 20% deposit on a 600K house - that $120,000 worth of risk that they are taking on. Seems a lot doesn't it? However - Factor in this, if you pay your mortgage consistently, you will typically only need to wait up to 5 years before the payments you have made AND the appreciation of your house value means that you have enough equity in the house to take them off as Guarantor (even less in some suburbs, for example if the house prices continue, I will be taking my guarantor off at the 3 year mark). Factor in House insurance (compulsory for a Mortgage) and Life and Income protection insurance - it is virtually a risk-free gamble.

Now - you say I had it easier - I call BS. When I first looked at getting a Mortgage, all the banks I spoke to told me the same thing: No deposit, no Mortgage. At that point I could have stopped and I would have been in the same boat as everyone who was crying about Auckland house prices then.

But this is where I differed - I had decided I needed a house (in order to raise a family) and so it was a high priority for me to make it happen. Cue some googling and some research and I found that I could get a Guarantor on JUST the deposit (not the entire Mortgage)

So, I went back to the banks and they said that yes it was a possibility, but they would need to get independant legal advise and there would be risks (the Doom and Gloom speach and standard corporate waivers) etc.

If you want to believe that my farts smell like roses and I clicked my fingers and got a house, then more power to you. The reality is that I had to put in additional hard work to find a solution to getting a house. I then had to take extra measures to ensure that I could mitigate any risks for the Guarantor (as listed above) - measures which I pay for.

These options are open to me in much the same way they are open to anyone who has family that owns a house.

[Swoop]

Jealous of being in hock to the bank up to 30 meters above your eyeballs?
Not likely.

Interest rates are the lowest in ages and looking like going even lower. Very nice for those who have mortgages.
I don't see the need for one currently.

[HenryDorsetCase]

The reality is that if your family own a house, and they go guarantor on the deposit - is it such a risk to them:

As it happens, I can answer your question. For a small, OK, large charge.

The answer is: Yes, yes it is. My advice to everyone, deadpan, whenever advising anyone on any guarantee is "Do not sign this". What is a guarantee? It gives someone (the bank) access to assets (your parents) that they otherwise would not have and for no consideration.

Why go there?

Its even worse if the children are using the funds to go into "Business" but bad enough with a house. If you are a parent asked to do this the best way is to borrow the coin yourself, give it to the kid, and the kid borrows the balance from their bank. Why? it quarantines the exposure. You know upfront the amount you will be liable to the bank for, and if your kids turn out to be no-good pieces of shit (it happens) who dont pay, then you have some potential of not losing your own house. An unlimited, all obligations bank guarantee means you (the parents) are on the hook for ALL of the kids debt, plus interest and the costs of collection including fucking agents commission, valuation, and the cost of a big law firm to run a mortgagee sale. Plus you get less because its a mortgagee sale. Its a recipe for being fucked over big time and you should not do it.

IF YOU WISH TO PROCEED: Mum and Dad get your own lawyer. I cannot stress that enough. And fucking put the kids through the wringer. "Oh but my little Johnny/Janet would never do that to me". Yeah fucking right. Maybe they wouldnt but what about their embittered ex-partner? of the barmaid he is fucking on the side? or loses his job or whatever?

TL;DR: Look at the worst case, not the best case.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Gifted is a very long stretch - I still have to pay a 100% mortgage (if I had an actual cash deposit of 20%, my mortgage payments drop by $200-$300 a fortnight)

The reality is that if your family own a house, and they go guarantor on the deposit - is it such a risk to them:

lets assume a 20% deposit on a 600K house - that $120,000 worth of risk that they are taking on. Seems a lot doesn't it? However - Factor in this, if you pay your mortgage consistently, you will typically only need to wait up to 5 years before the payments you have made AND the appreciation of your house value means that you have enough equity in the house to take them off as Guarantor (even less in some suburbs, for example if the house prices continue, I will be taking my guarantor off at the 3 year mark). Factor in House insurance (compulsory for a Mortgage) and Life and Income protection insurance - it is virtually a risk-free gamble.

Now - you say I had it easier - I call BS. When I first looked at getting a Mortgage, all the banks I spoke to told me the same thing: No deposit, no Mortgage. At that point I could have stopped and I would have been in the same boat as everyone who was crying about Auckland house prices then.

But this is where I differed - I had decided I needed a house (in order to raise a family) and so it was a high priority for me to make it happen. Cue some googling and some research and I found that I could get a Guarantor on JUST the deposit (not the entire Mortgage)

So, I went back to the banks and they said that yes it was a possibility, but they would need to get independant legal advise and there would be risks (the Doom and Gloom speach and standard corporate waivers) etc.

If you want to believe that my farts smell like roses and I clicked my fingers and got a house, then more power to you. The reality is that I had to put in additional hard work to find a solution to getting a house. I then had to take extra measures to ensure that I could mitigate any risks for the Guarantor (as listed above) - measures which I pay for.

These options are open to me in much the same way they are open to anyone who has family that owns a house.

I do believe your farts smell like roses.

[eldog]

As it happens, I can answer your question. For a small, OK, large charge.

The answer is: Yes, yes it is. My advice to everyone, deadpan, whenever advising anyone on any guarantee is "Do not sign this". What is a guarantee? It gives someone (the bank) access to assets (your parents) that they otherwise would not have and for no consideration.

Why go there?

Its even worse if the children are using the funds to go into "Business" but bad enough with a house. If you are a parent asked to do this the best way is to borrow the coin yourself, give it to the kid, and the kid borrows the balance from their bank. Why? it quarantines the exposure. You know upfront the amount you will be liable to the bank for, and if your kids turn out to be no-good pieces of shit (it happens) who dont pay, then you have some potential of not losing your own house. An unlimited, all obligations bank guarantee means you (the parents) are on the hook for ALL of the kids debt, plus interest and the costs of collection including fucking agents commission, valuation, and the cost of a big law firm to run a mortgagee sale. Plus you get less because its a mortgagee sale. Its a recipe for being fucked over big time and you should not do it.

IF YOU WISH TO PROCEED: Mum and Dad get your own lawyer. I cannot stress that enough. And fucking put the kids through the wringer. "Oh but my little Johnny/Janet would never do that to me". Yeah fucking right. Maybe they wouldnt but what about their embittered ex-partner? of the barmaid he is fucking on the side? or loses his job or whatever?

TL;DR: Look at the worst case, not the best case.

+1 on this - it happens to the best intentioned people, usually by the ones who aren't related and who can least afford another debt.

[Voltaire]

As it happens, I can answer your question. For a small, OK, large charge.

The answer is: Yes, yes it is. My advice to everyone, deadpan, whenever advising anyone on any guarantee is "Do not sign this". What is a guarantee? It gives someone (the bank) access to assets (your parents) that they otherwise would not have and for no consideration.

Why go there?

Its even worse if the children are using the funds to go into "Business" but bad enough with a house. If you are a parent asked to do this the best way is to borrow the coin yourself, give it to the kid, and the kid borrows the balance from their bank. Why? it quarantines the exposure. You know upfront the amount you will be liable to the bank for, and if your kids turn out to be no-good pieces of shit (it happens) who dont pay, then you have some potential of not losing your own house. An unlimited, all obligations bank guarantee means you (the parents) are on the hook for ALL of the kids debt, plus interest and the costs of collection including fucking agents commission, valuation, and the cost of a big law firm to run a mortgagee sale. Plus you get less because its a mortgagee sale. Its a recipe for being fucked over big time and you should not do it.

IF YOU WISH TO PROCEED: Mum and Dad get your own lawyer. I cannot stress that enough. And fucking put the kids through the wringer. "Oh but my little Johnny/Janet would never do that to me". Yeah fucking right. Maybe they wouldnt but what about their embittered ex-partner? of the barmaid he is fucking on the side? or loses his job or whatever?

TL;DR: Look at the worst case, not the best case.

I was living in Ireland in 2002-04 during the Celtic tiger years and house prices there went mad. It got to the situation where Banks were encouraging people to get their Parents to go Guarantor. The general consensus was as you say not a great idea as Parents did not need the financial exposure at their point in life. It was also seen as 'feeding' the whole thing.
When it all came crashing down I'm sure there were a lot of badly hit people.
the Banks however got bailed out by the Government ( taxpayer) and carried on.
Does anyone pursue the individuals debts, oh yes, the Banks...ah no dats grand and handy like.
Hard to say how this one is going to end, but I gave up on any ideas of moving house as you need to buy first then sell.

[eldog]

Gifted is a very long stretch - I still have to pay a 100% mortgage (if I had an actual cash deposit of 20%, my mortgage payments drop by $200-$300 a fortnight)

The reality is that if your family own a house, and they go guarantor on the deposit - is it such a risk to them:

lets assume a 20% deposit on a 600K house - that $120,000 worth of risk that they are taking on. Seems a lot doesn't it? However - Factor in this, if you pay your mortgage consistently, you will typically only need to wait up to 5 years before the payments you have made AND the appreciation of your house value means that you have enough equity in the house to take them off as Guarantor (even less in some suburbs, for example if the house prices continue, I will be taking my guarantor off at the 3 year mark). Factor in House insurance (compulsory for a Mortgage) and Life and Income protection insurance - it is virtually a risk-free gamble.

Now - you say I had it easier - I call BS. When I first looked at getting a Mortgage, all the banks I spoke to told me the same thing: No deposit, no Mortgage. At that point I could have stopped and I would have been in the same boat as everyone who was crying about Auckland house prices then.

But this is where I differed - I had decided I needed a house (in order to raise a family) and so it was a high priority for me to make it happen. Cue some googling and some research and I found that I could get a Guarantor on JUST the deposit (not the entire Mortgage)

So, I went back to the banks and they said that yes it was a possibility, but they would need to get independant legal advise and there would be risks (the Doom and Gloom speach and standard corporate waivers) etc.

If you want to believe that my farts smell like roses and I clicked my fingers and got a house, then more power to you. The reality is that I had to put in additional hard work to find a solution to getting a house. I then had to take extra measures to ensure that I could mitigate any risks for the Guarantor (as listed above) - measures which I pay for.

These options are open to me in much the same way they are open to anyone who has family that owns a house.

You sound like you will be one of those that WILL pay it off and good on you.
Its just that there are a lot of people out there who have been burnt by becoming guarantors, not just with houses, cars are a good example
several time I have just narrowly missed been totally burnt by 'friends' failing to pay back loans I gave them, to get them out of the shit or buy something they want.
Now if I cant afford to loose it I don't loan it.

[5ive]

Gifted is a very long stretch - I still have to pay a 100% mortgage (if I had an actual cash deposit of 20%, my mortgage payments drop by $200-$300 a fortnight)

The reality is that if your family own a house, and they go guarantor on the deposit - is it such a risk to them:

lets assume a 20% deposit on a 600K house - that $120,000 worth of risk that they are taking on. Seems a lot doesn't it? However - Factor in this, if you pay your mortgage consistently, you will typically only need to wait up to 5 years before the payments you have made AND the appreciation of your house value means that you have enough equity in the house to take them off as Guarantor (even less in some suburbs, for example if the house prices continue, I will be taking my guarantor off at the 3 year mark). Factor in House insurance (compulsory for a Mortgage) and Life and Income protection insurance - it is virtually a risk-free gamble.

Now - you say I had it easier - I call BS. When I first looked at getting a Mortgage, all the banks I spoke to told me the same thing: No deposit, no Mortgage. At that point I could have stopped and I would have been in the same boat as everyone who was crying about Auckland house prices then.

But this is where I differed - I had decided I needed a house (in order to raise a family) and so it was a high priority for me to make it happen. Cue some googling and some research and I found that I could get a Guarantor on JUST the deposit (not the entire Mortgage)

So, I went back to the banks and they said that yes it was a possibility, but they would need to get independant legal advise and there would be risks (the Doom and Gloom speach and standard corporate waivers) etc.

If you want to believe that my farts smell like roses and I clicked my fingers and got a house, then more power to you. The reality is that I had to put in additional hard work to find a solution to getting a house. I then had to take extra measures to ensure that I could mitigate any risks for the Guarantor (as listed above) - measures which I pay for.

These options are open to me in much the same way they are open to anyone who has family that owns a house.

I applaud you and your family for supporting each other into home ownership, congratulations. It is really quite hard to become a successful first home buyer in Auckland, I think it's admirable to take on such heavy debt to secure a future for yourself, your partner, and your child. Makes it even easier (possible) to consider a second child

Securing a stable home to raise a family is important, and very desirable. Your motives are not at question here at all.

I may not have conveyed myself clearly in my previous posts, and i'm honestly just frustrated with, in my opinion, a real lack of empathy towards genuine first home buyers who have little chance of success due to 'rules', and personal circumstances out of their control.

Your posts here, and in other threads, have pissed me off because you seem to think that everyone has the same circumstances that you do, which I do not think is the case.

Here is my point, which you have finally conceded:

These options are open to me in much the same way they are open to anyone who has family that owns a house.

This is just one problem, within the Auckland housing market at the moment. You, as a first home buyer (with parents who are able to secure you a home loan with a bank) are the exception, not the rule.