Volkswagen running for cover

[Moi]

Nice read, VW might be in damage control mode stage 2

Did wonder what Gary Larson's mad scientists would make of this? Found this and thought it summed it up nicely...

[Voltaire]

This is no different to bike manufacturers retarding ignition maps to pass noise regs.
The VW engines and others are very good and very clean. However for a Cat converter to work properly and efficiently it has to be hot. So an extra map is included when under test to burn fuel in the exhaust to get the CAT hot enough to pass emmisions. During driving once engine is hot it doesn't need this so its switched off.
Cummins IGX engines do the same by injecting diesel into the exhaust to make it hot enough for the emmisons control processes to work.
The general public is so dumbed down they haven't a hope in hell of understanding this so have been hoodwinked by media and the Elite. VW was just about to go mainstream with Electric car infrastructure in China to tune of 22 Billion dollars, coincidentally the same as their emmisions cheat fine.... make of that what you will.....

I wondered why a couple of Ducatis I have bought over the years were so high geared, was told it was to pass noise emissions, who knows.
Funny America being the second largest user of coal power making a big deal about it...

Usual supporting link
http://www.worldmapper.org/posters/w...ap113_ver5.pdf

[AllanB]

Mrs B has a late model VW Golf GT (petrol) bloody great car. I'd buy another in a heartbeat. Emission shit be dammed.

[nerrrd]

It's just American emissions crap - a lot of manufacturers can't be bothered, and so America doesn't get a wide variety of models as other countries.

Motorcycles too - Honda are still selling the NC700 in the States for this very reason, apparently, while everyone else has had the upgraded 750 version for a year or so now.

[sidecar bob]

Mrs B has a late model VW Golf GT (petrol) bloody great car. I'd buy another in a heartbeat. Emission shit be dammed.

My mrs has a Current model Audi (same platform as an equivalent VW), I am extremely impressed with it, & that from a BMW tech of 25 years.
They are certainly building great products & a bit of political bullshit doesn't change my opinion on that.

[vifferman]

The VW engines and others are very good and very clean. However for a Cat converter to work properly and efficiently it has to be hot. So an extra map is included when under test to burn fuel in the exhaust to get the CAT hot enough to pass emmisions. During driving once engine is hot it doesn't need this so its switched off.
Cummins IGX engines do the same by injecting diesel into the exhaust to make it hot enough for the emmisons control processes to work.

VW TDi does that periodically too, apparently to help stop the cat from coking up. It's not a test feature, but based on feedback from the sensor in the cat. Reeeoww!
As for this scandal, as a Passat TDi owner, I'm not too concerned about it. The car is pretty economical (about the same as my VFR), has loads of torque (350 mutant-eaters from 1500 rpm to 4000, IIRC), and is lovely to drive. Yeah, the R36 might have been better, but I couldn't find a low-mileage clean one when I was looking around. The one thing that does REALLY piss me off is the ever-increasing RUCs; it makes no sense lumping it in with 3.5 tonne trucks, and so (apart from the torque for towing etc) I might as well have bought a petroleum powered PissRat. The overall running cost is similar, but the exceptional economy is negated by the tax, instead of being a bonus.

As for Seat, Audi, Skoda - yes, they use the same donks, but as a premium product, Audi have some that aren't used by the others, to retain some exclusivity.

[Stylo]

VW TDi does that periodically too, apparently to help stop the cat from coking up. It's not a test feature, but based on feedback from the sensor in the cat. Reeeoww!
As for this scandal, as a Passat TDi owner, I'm not too concerned about it. The car is pretty economical (about the same as my VFR), has loads of torque (350 mutant-eaters from 1500 rpm to 4000, IIRC), and is lovely to drive. Yeah, the R36 might have been better, but I couldn't find a low-mileage clean one when I was looking around. The one thing that does REALLY piss me off is the ever-increasing RUCs; it makes no sense lumping it in with 3.5 tonne trucks, and so (apart from the torque for towing etc) I might as well have bought a petroleum powered PissRat. The overall running cost is similar, but the exceptional economy is negated by the tax, instead of being a bonus.

As for Seat, Audi, Skoda - yes, they use the same donks, but as a premium product, Audi have some that aren't used by the others, to retain some exclusivity.

Your tax problems aside, you might have missed the point mate.

[Voltaire]

Mrs B has a late model VW Golf GT (petrol) bloody great car. I'd buy another in a heartbeat. Emission shit be dammed.

My T4 van has 300 000kms, I'd have bought another but they are too expensive...ah well make do with a 230 HP Subaru turbo with a towbar...

T4 is for sale soon.

[buggerit]

A decade old family feud, boardroom coups, takeover battles and now the realisation of the manipulated diesel emissions tests in the U.S. ( and Europe too it's been suggested ) that could run into the tens of billions in costs.

Not a good week for Volkswagen, and it ain't gonna get any better. This is just the start .

Not like the Germans to gas people

[Voltaire]

BMW said it did not manipulate or rig any emissions tests. “There is no function to recognise emissions testing cycles at BMW. All emissions systems remain active outside the testing cycles,” a statement said.


11 times


- the amount by which BMW's X3 model exceeded EU emissions limits

Juergen Pieper, a Frankfurt-based motor industry analyst, said: “There is no suggestion BMW has done anything illegal. There are concerns for the long-term damage for every manufacturer that builds cars with these engines.”

its turning into Krautgate

[vifferman]

Your tax problems aside, you might have missed the point mate.

Nope. Just didn't have much to say about it that hasn't already been said on the webs or here. I did think VW NZ's response was a bit muted, but then I guess they're waiting for head office to tell them what the official line is.
Now that I've had some time to digest what's alleged(?) to have happened, I'm a bit disappointed. Yes, the supposedly clean-running of the TDi engine did have some influence on my buying decision. But.... on the other hand, if a compliant version of the engine maps was rolled out to NZ (assuming NZ models are affected), I'd be reluctant to accept it if it resulted in a significant performance hit. Selfish? Yup, I guess so. But it would be a case of the car I bought not being quite what I thought it was. So... I can see how Mrkns might be feeling and reacting.

VW America has always been a bit different to the rest of the world. Their cars are made in America, and not always up to the Euro standards and features, which causes them to get a bit pissy, when they miss out on new releases such as the Golf R Variant (wagon), because it's deemed to be a model that wouldn't sell in Mrka. I'm not sure either that (outside of Californicatia) they really give a rat's about emissions, and if they do, it's less important than HP or cupholders.

[pritch]

Interestingly, the supplier of uniforms to the Nazi's was none other than Hugo Boss.

Well, one of their suppliers. Also the supplier of the frames of my newest reading glasses. Every time I look at the case I think, "As supplied to the Gestapo".
As you say, time heals.

[Lightbulb]

And here I was hoping that the price of a new VW would drop to affordable levels.
Some top people have already resigned, no doubt more to follow. Some have been really bright and very clever people.
Neil

[Voltaire]

Well, The Shareholder want profits, the upper levels of the Corporation set the targets and the middle managers put the pressure on and the minions do what is required to meet the

requirements.

Unlikely they will find a document from a designer stating they found a way thru software to sense the vehicle was being tested and run leaner ( or whatever diesels do).

Probably say, software that reduces emmissions under certain conditions where said emissions may be detrimental.

That would be an easier box to tick off.

[FROSTY:Me]

Theres a chicken and egg issue in all this.
IF VW hadn't cheated the tests would they have sold so many cars?
So then would they be as profitable?
Therefore would they have the money to invest in new technology?
They got where they are with the features they have because of profitability partially funded by the US market share.
What will be interesting to see is how they recover now they have to play on a relatively level playing field.
My prediction is the R ad D currently in the pipeline will continue but theres going to be a 5-10year slump in development similar to the slump after japan got hit by the last major tidal wave