Would you cross a union picket line?

[Blackbird]

It isn't only the unions that "bend the truth"; the employers, the Government and the newspapers are more than willing to do as well. Consequently it can sometimes be difficult for an outsider to know the facts of the matter.

Absolutely! I was just reading some archives on line about the Kinleith Mill (where I was maintenance manager) and Marsden Point industrial action and realised how much I'd forgotten about some of the horrors that the average person suffered in the crossfire. Most of the line managers and local union delegates got on really well. It was interference from both employer reps and union officials who were not actually on those sites who caused most of the grief, both from opposing ideological standpoints and from sheer incompetence.

[Big Dog]

I am all for collective bargaining. Not a fan of the modern union.
If you don't like your job get another. Can't get a good job get educated.

I have worked places where the bloody minded unions forced employee reductions so the privileged could have a couple more dollars.
I have worked hard to earn pay rises only to have the union cover in behind me and have the starting wage raised to where the most idle person earned the same.

I appreciate the changes the unions of old fought for. I don't see that idealism in the current crop.

If I arrived at bunions and people were picketing I might take the time to find out their cause if they aren't being twits.

I will decide accordingly. Not blindly do whatever the union wants. Sometimes what they want is unreasonable. Most cases in the past I have shown my support by taking my purchase elsewhere. Not always.

But anyone lays a hand on me that is crossing the line.
I will retaliate with whatever is the least amount of force required to ensure mine and my family's safety.
I would not hesitate to have them charged afterward.


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[Rhubarb]

Passing a picket line to buy some weedkiller or polyfilla is a bit different to passing a picket line to take the job of the people taking action.

I agree.

I've dealt quite a bit with unions as an employee then as an employee + union rep and for the last 12 years as an employer.

All those years ago I resigned as the Company Union Rep because I didn't like the way the Union people acted (those employed by the union)- unethical, underhanded, manipulative, devious and self serving.

At the drop of a hat they wanted the employees to go out on strike because there was 0.5% difference in the Union's pay demand compared to the Employers offer!!!
The union wanted the employees to go on strike without pay for a pathetic 0.5% while the union people would stand on the frontline to support us after arriving in the union supplied $40,000 car while they still got paid their $50,000 or $60,000 per annum standing beside company employees who are being misguided by the union fat cats into going on strike to get another 9 cents an hour.
In my case the company offered 68 cents extra an hour but the union wanted me to get 77c more per hour - not because it was good for me but because the union wanted to 'win'.
I resigned from the union, negotiated one-to-one with the employer myself and got what I felt I deserved.

Having said that, I'm sure there are instances where strikes and union involvement has benefited employees.

Also, not all employers are bastards.

[Big Dog]

I was involved in an industrial action once, it was a real education. One supervisor immediately started carrying a pick axe handle in his ute. A manager tried to hit people in the picket line with his vehicle before he raced away up the road. He must have been really pissed off when he realised he had raced away up a dead end road. Fuckwit!

So having once had the experience I wouldn't cross a picket line. It isn't only the unions that "bend the truth"; the employers, the Government and the newspapers are more than willing to do as well. Consequently it can sometimes be difficult for an outsider to know the facts of the matter.

Before they out sourced mount eden it was common to see uniformed guards picketing the prison. It made me wonder what would happen if their patrons refused to cross the picket line.

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[jasonu]

Back in the 80's when the Boilermakers, Riggers and associated militant unions were always pulling the pin, I was crossing picket lines on a daily basis as a manager in one of the companies which always got targeted because of its size. Never copped any abuse from the company employees who were picketing as I had good relations with most of them. It was a bit different with the inevitable "ring-ins" from outside like Bill Anderson and John Findlay and their heavies. They make the current crop look like saints. Besides, the ideologies and reasons for industrial action between then and now are a world apart.

It seamed like the onion spokesman was always a fat pom.

I worked on the K'rd McDonalds original installation way back when. The on site union head honcho was a fat pommy cunt (chippie IIRC) who spent his day worrying about what everyone else was or wasn't doing and if they were in the union. I never saw him actually cut a piece if wood or hammer in a nail the whole time I was on that site.

[Blackbird]

It seamed like the onion spokesman was always a fat pom.

Well, most of the onion bigwigs of that era certainly fitted that description. Representing their best interests over and above that of their members was always top priority. Intimidating their members was second priority. The Engineers Union on-site shop steward I used to deal with was an Aussie and an outstanding tradesman. He was an honourable man, certainly not soft but most everyday issues were sorted on the basis of a handshake. Everyone owed him a real debt of gratitude. Regrettably, the Electricians delegate was a complete lunatic of Dalmatian origin and I always thought that he would have fitted in perfectly with the strife in that part of the world.

In a similar vein, in my whole working life of over 4 decades, I've only ever worked with 2 people who were true leaders. (as opposed to a few good managers and some right arseoles). It probably shows just how rare good leaders are, irrespective of what side of an organisation they are on.

[Oakie]

I did cross a picket line where I worked once. I was not a member of the union and I was not doing the same work as the strikers so was pretty comfortable doing it. Actually it was dead easy because none of them even turned up to picket. Just took it as a day at home to mow the lawn or go to the lake. They lost 2 days wages which I think was going to have taken them 18 months to recoup because there was bugger all difference between employers' offer and union's demand. Don't recall if they even got it or not.

Now as for the Bunnings demands: One guy said he wanted more family time than his 4 day a week for 40 hours pay allowed. Hard to see how he can do that without reducing hours. The other complaint I noted was the guy who thought it was wrong that he should have to request time off in writing (rather than just tell the boss he wasn't coming in on such and such a day).

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[Oakie]

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Gawd. Didn't even have to play that to remember it.

[scumdog]

I was lucky to be a freezing worker back when pay was good and the union strong.
The only strikes we ever went on was a union mandated 'national strike'.

But have to admit I didn't agree to the union head ratinale for one or two of those strikes but as the works was at a stand-still there was no picket line since nobody had the option of working, to this day I'm not sure I wouldn't have crossed the picket line.

[nodrog:Me]

Let me say at the start that I used to be a union member when I started work (because it was compulsary probably). I have been a branch president and then a Secretary for a short time before leaving that employer. Since then I have not been a union member although was part of a 'Staff Committee' for a while as we negotiated some stuff in an employer (in a cooperative and productive manner it must be said).

About that time (20 years ago) I became annoyed with unions because of blatant lying I saw over 2 negotiation cycles. First time around they refused to negotiate with the employer alongside our staff committee. Their right I guess so we negotiated separately and our little employee group achieved a lot more than the Union. Next time around at a pre negotiation meeting the union invited us to, their negotiator speechified about how management had refused to negotiate with both parties together last time and that we must "go forward together". Utter bullshit of course. So we sat in the same room and did our thing but the stuff that union reported back to their members would have made you think they were in a different meeting.

Fast forward to about 2004 and a union was picketing my new employer. Basically our 500 odd staff were on $16 to $19 and hour with 3 'special' staff on about $10.50 for some reason. Signs carried by picketers said that we pay all our staff $10.50 and the dishonesty of that really made me angry.

So I'll get to the point. Bunnings workers picketing. They did it here at my local in Christchurch and made their point without impeding anyone so I tolerated it when I went to get some stuff. They did it in Auckland and made some human barricade and stopped people going into do their shopping and my blood boiled at that. I'm a mild mannered guy but if anyone put their hands on me to stop me going about my legal business in that manner I really think I'd use the small amount of Aikido we were taught at work and probably break or dislocate whatever body part they touch me with.

So what say you good KBers. Do you respect someone else's picket line regardless or would you try to cross to go about your business ... and what do you do if you are impeded?

I go to Bunning's quite a bit for work, and the impression I get is that it is a job for the retired person, the in between jobs person, or the unemployable anywhere else person.

I think some people need to take a step back and see how lucky they are to actually be employed sometimes.

I'm pretty sure there maybe some people that would be far more grateful to be employed there.

[Shaun Harris]

I was lucky to be a freezing worker back when pay was good and the union strong.
The only strikes we ever went on was a union mandated 'national strike'.

But have to admit I didn't agree to the union head ratinale for one or two of those strikes but as the works was at a stand-still there was no picket line since nobody had the option of working, to this day I'm not sure I wouldn't have crossed the picket line.

The union itself totally destroyed the Patea freezing works, which then destroyed the whole town really. Lazy power hungry fukers who were already on very very good money, dumb bar-stewards

[Shaun Harris]

I think some people need to take a step back and see how lucky they are to actually be employed sometimes.

I'm pretty sure there maybe some people that would be far more grateful to be employed there.

Agreed man. we all have the right to work, but the owner has the right also to refuse you a job

[Maha]

Unions are like online polls, they're there, but have little (if any) significance, and ultimately make the unintelligent look even more so, for no good reason other than casting a fucking useless vote in the first place.

[RDJ]

When a picket line is a physical, unlawful barrier to me freely going about my business I will cross it. When a picket line is not impeding foot and vehicle traffic and displaying placards to communicate their side of the story, the picketers have the right to be seen.