Iam nz

[Blackbird]

Cassina chooses to misinterpret everything which has been said by everyone rather than PROPERLY investigating the real facts like a rational human being does. There is a famous saying by a British philosopher which applies perfectly to this situation:

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

Never more apt in Cassina's case. I suggest that we don't try and argue rationally any further for our own sanity

[GrayWolf]

My critisisim of the practise was based on the fact that he placed a lot trust in other motorists staying on their side of the road which is something you have completely overlooked in your response to me so its you who are the stupid one as far as I am concerned. Not all bends can be seen around at the start and there are bends in the South island where it would be difficult for some vehicles to get around without going over the centre line and this IAMS practise would see you dead if you were to meet up with such a vehicle. The winding road into Kaiteriteri is one such road where riding the centre line would be very stupid especially at holiday time.

Firstly, I said OUT BY, not on........ and you actually shoot your own argument down in flames, in your reply to kikaha " Not all bends can be seen around at the start and there are bends in the South island where it would be difficult for some vehicles to get around without going over the centre "
CORRECT! So, in the case of a blind bend, what about the broken down car just past the apex? At 100km's keeping to the left, you have little to zero braking room, {see, interpret, react, brake} being out towards or out by the centreline you have just increased your vision round the apex by a factor of..... Earlier detection, earlier response. Also {and I am sure that if I went for a ride with Gremlin, he'd come back with a long list of sins} part of 'roadcraft' is ANTICIPATION, you are expecting a car to be over the line, and on such a tight bend as you describe, you would indeed MODIFY your road position, and, if a completely obscured view round the bend, SLOW DOWN to a speed you can stop at within the view available.
Also if you came up north {btw I lived in Invergumboot 14yrs, so know south island roads well} We locally have the rimutaka's which is full of tight twisty bends that we get bloody Artic's on our side of the road. Again on such a bend or series, IAM would teach to plan ahead, look for possible threats {tight blind bends} or if the apex is more open {vanishing point} and adjust your SPEED and position accordingly.
This seems to be your problem, you are so black/white you are incapable of thinking grey. And as I am a person who is on the Asperger's scale, that is NOT a compliment, as I know all about that kind of thinking.

[swbarnett]

I can tell you now that IAMs ridng from what you have said is definitly not for me because you are placing too much trust in other motorists not to screw up.

Quite the opposite in fact. A big part of roadcraft is the constant knowledge that other motorists WILL screw up. Proper roadcraft will give you the best chance of coming out alive and unharmed when they do.

[swbarnett]

...not a riding school as they werent around/promoted back in the 70s.

I don't know about the '70s but they were definitely around in the early '80s.

[Gremlin]

Good luck if you think riding the centre line on a bend is safer than not riding it as bends can vary in their tightness and complexity (trees vegitation etc blocking the view) and in case you were not aware there has been a lot of media stories about other vehicles crossing the cente line on bends and if you are riding the centre line at the same time a head on collision is very likely but if you keep left you could more likely avoid the other vehicle by swerving off the road. In an ideal world what you are saying would enable you to corner quicker and smoother through the bend but we are not living in an ideal world where everyone keeps to their side of the road. I can tell you now that IAMs ridng from what you have said is definitly not for me because you are placing too much trust in other motorists not to screw up.

2 parts to Positioning. First:
Safety
Stability
View

Your position on the road is based on above, in order of priority (so therefore View is last). If something is not safe, you do not do it. Yes, you maintain a right hand position on a left hand bend, but when you sight oncoming traffic (which you'll see sooner in this position, and they'll see you sooner) you sacrifice position for safety. Second, you should always be riding at a speed which you can stop in the distance you can see to be clear (half for a road with no centre line).

You're taking one small aspect of the entire system out of context... it's a lot more complex than that, and we haven't even started talking about linking corners...

[Ulsterkiwi]

All the accidents I have had that have been the fault of others as I have said many times have happened too fast to swerve or brake and I am the sort of person who would change bike if I felt a different model would be safer for me.
Just as an example what does the Roadcraft/IAMs manual say to do if you are coming to the end of a 1 way bridge and another car driver comes onto it thinking it is 2 lane. I would be very surprised if they would have an answer for such a question.

be able to brake in the distance you can see...next?

Of course your question is posed from a position of ignorance. You are passing judgement on a work you clearly have never read. No piece of writing will ever be able to provide a definitive set of instructions for every single possible permutation of the variables involved in using the road. To expect that is the thinking of a very limited mind. What the manual does is provide a reference or framework we can use, others have described it as the roadcraft system. A set of principles which applied to any situation will reduce the risk to you as much as possible. Of course the system is limited by its user, put Marquez on your bike and he will beat most recreational riders into the ground with respect to laptimes around a race track. The mentoring IAM provides is about how to implement the system.

[Ulsterkiwi]

Please dont waste your time going into all the complex technicalities as I remember a very lengthy debate on here about a year ago about cornering and some of us just like to go out and do it and if we get it wrong the corners let us know dont they? As I have said before if you believe IAMS training can save lives you and your mates should be lobbying the Govt/ACC for it to be put in the licensing syllibus.

Its called CBTA.

I wonder, if you were to take the CBTA full licence test how things would go. Surely all your experience would mean you have nothing to fear and could fly through the test?

At my workplace we often discuss a concept known as lifelong learning. Essentially there is always something we can learn or improve with respect to the skill-set we require to do the work we do. Riding is a skill-set. It is a shame for your part that you have gotten to this stage in life and still have not learned there is much to learn. Even beginners can teach an "expert" something.

[bogan]

All the accidents I have had that have been the fault of others as I have said many times have happened too fast to swerve or brake and I am the sort of person who would change bike if I felt a different model would be safer for me.
Just as an example what does the Roadcraft/IAMs manual say to do if you are coming to the end of a 1 way bridge and another car driver comes onto it thinking it is 2 lane. I would be very surprised if they would have an answer for such a question.

How about that one where you were following too close, then panicked and tucked the front end? For your information, is it not. That is entirely your fault. Or is it not what it is, anymore?

[WNJ]

Just as an example what does the Roadcraft/IAMs manual say to do if you are coming to the end of a 1 way bridge and another car driver comes onto it thinking it is 2 lane..

Bit difficult to get the manual out and read it if your riding

[swbarnett]

Just as an example what does the Roadcraft/IAMs manual say to do if you are coming to the end of a 1 way bridge and another car driver comes onto it thinking it is 2 lane. I would be very surprised if they would have an answer for such a question.

I can't answer specifically for the "IAM manual" but I have an answer from personal experience. Half way across a one-way bridge where I had the right of way I saw a car approaching that I could not be sure was going to stop. I wound the throttle wide open and left the bridge before they became an issue.

[Gremlin]

Please dont waste your time going into all the complex technicalities as I remember a very lengthy debate on here about a year ago about cornering and some of us just like to go out and do it and if we get it wrong the corners let us know dont they? As I have said before if you believe IAMS training can save lives you and your mates should be lobbying the Govt/ACC for it to be put in the licensing syllibus.

Then why are you in this thread? You have no interest other than to run it down from your point of view and you've never tried it, so can't speak from experience?

[nzspokes]

Just as an example what does the Roadcraft/IAMs manual say to do if you are coming to the end of a 1 way bridge and another car driver comes onto it thinking it is 2 lane. I would be very surprised if they would have an answer for such a question.

They would tell you not to go on the bridge if you cannot be sure the car has or will stop.

But that is common sense.

[caspernz]

Then why are you in this thread? You have no interest other than to run it down from your point of view and you've never tried it, so can't speak from experience?

There is one very positive aspect to the interaction with cassina......in that mere mortals all of a sudden take on genius status

[Berries]

All the accidents I have had that have been the fault of others as I have said many times have happened too fast to swerve or brake and I am the sort of person who would change bike if I felt a different model would be safer for me.

Well of course a 1982 CB750 is right up there in the braking and handling stakes isn't it?

[GrayWolf]

So now you are saying what I am saying about not riding the centre line does make sense but you did not say you limit the practise to only certain bends now did you? Also I dont know about you but I actually take notice of speed recommendations on bends and always slow for other bends too. I bet I am just as good at riding as you due to you pointing out things in this post that I actually do. The difference is my learning has come from experience and not a riding school as they werent around/promoted back in the 70s.

You have a conveniently short memory dont you?? Obviously this is why you STRUGGLE with a new concept.... I refer you back a few pages to where you harped on that you've been riding since 1976. I pointed out I have been riding since 1974... remember????
AND like you have NEVER stopped riding, I rode 9yrs in English winters, lived in London {traffic} and used to do semi regular weekend thrashes down to Spain through Europe.
So Cassina to use your own learned the 'hard way' ethos, I out experience you!!!!