MotoGP 2016

[mr bucketracer]

Moto2 has the best riding and racing ..but don't know why i don't like it

[James Deuce]

I don't like Moto2.
You don't like Moto2.
That makes two us (maybe three with Crasher).

I don't think we're in the majority.

I didn't say majority, however, motorsport fans with a casual interest in motorcycle racing that I work with all say the same thing: They don't understand Moto2 and consequently don't watch because the teams don't resonate and riders never seem to progress to MotoGP and do anything remarkable, with a singular exception of course. Most of those casual fans have no idea Marquez the Elder raced Moto2.

[speights_bud]

Going in blind...

CJ
MM
VR
AD
DP

CJ is in there on the basis of new track win or bin...

[Mental Trousers]

Why should any manufacturer try to develop something that hasn't ever been made to work though?

There are better solutions but nobodies been willing to spend the money or time. The riders aren't interested in developing something either as they want to win now, not in a couple of years or so after the bugs have been worked out.

One of the reasons things like Moto2 and Moto3 are seen as inferior these days is the total lack of innovation going on. They're all cookie cutter bikes. Many of the iconic bikes of the past broke from the mold and did things a bit differently. The GSXR750, the original R1, the featherbed Nortons, the Ducati Monster etc. All did things differently and they set the standard for following bikes.

So just because you like it, we all have to? I like most forms of motorcycle racing, but find Moto 2 shit. I also don't really care for drag racing. Superbikes I used to follow when Slighty and Crafar were involved, doesn't really interest me know. What's wrong with that? When the 250's were in action, they were one of my favs. So what. We all like or dislike what we do. Why get annoyed by others choices?

Not saying everyone has to like them. What pisses me off about it all is the people with the rose tinted glasses saying things are shit compared to how they used to be, eg Moto2 is shit compared to 250GPs. The machinery in Moto2 is functional compared to the artwork that was some of the 250GPs but as for the racing itself the entire field is closer together now than they ever have been in the past.

[Drew]

There are better solutions but nobodies been willing to spend the money or time. The riders aren't interested in developing something either as they want to win now, not in a couple of years or so after the bugs have been worked out.

One of the reasons things like Moto2 and Moto3 are seen as inferior these days is the total lack of innovation going on. They're all cookie cutter bikes. Many of the iconic bikes of the past broke from the mold and did things a bit differently. The GSXR750, the original R1, the featherbed Nortons, the Ducati Monster etc. All did things differently and they set the standard for following bikes.



Not saying everyone has to like them. What pisses me off about it all is the people with the rose tinted glasses saying things are shit compared to how they used to be, eg Moto2 is shit compared to 250GPs. The machinery in Moto2 is functional compared to the artwork that was some of the 250GPs but as for the racing itself the entire field is closer together now than they ever have been in the past.

The 750R and R1 were pretty natural progressions I think.

The beam frame was out of the box thinking I suppose, given that early examples were pretty porky it's done well to become the norm.

But manufacturers have spent money on different front ends...they were all shit from a lap time perspective. The Britten was a pig according to everyone but Guy Martin, and his pedegree hardly rates him as an authority. The BMW thing just doesn't give confidence. The only way to know where the limit on that is when you fall on your face. The Honda thing was so fucken technical no one could understand it. I've never read what it rode like that I can remember.

Forks are fairly light, with GPS damper mapping can be made to do whatever they have to 99% of the time, and they're available the world over.

There's nowt need to go another way up front for the moment.

Exoskeleton monocoque incorporating the fairing would be where I saw it going next. Weight figures could be reduces to the point that it'd nearly need heated rims to get the tyres hot.

[Crasherfromwayback]

What pisses me off about it all is the people with the rose tinted glasses saying things are shit compared to how they used to be, eg Moto2 is shit compared to 250GPs.

but as for the racing itself the entire field is closer together now than they ever have been in the past.

It is.

And being closer together does not automatically make it better. 250 GP racing has been, and often was over the years, some of THE best racing I've ever seen.

[Mental Trousers]

The 750R and R1 were pretty natural progressions I think.

The beam frame was out of the box thinking I suppose, given that early examples were pretty porky it's done well to become the norm.

But manufacturers have spent money on different front ends...they were all shit from a lap time perspective. The Britten was a pig according to everyone but Guy Martin, and his pedegree hardly rates him as an authority. The BMW thing just doesn't give confidence. The only way to know where the limit on that is when you fall on your face. The Honda thing was so fucken technical no one could understand it. I've never read what it rode like that I can remember.

Forks are fairly light, with GPS damper mapping can be made to do whatever they have to 99% of the time, and they're available the world over.

There's nowt need to go another way up front for the moment.

Exoskeleton monocoque incorporating the fairing would be where I saw it going next. Weight figures could be reduces to the point that it'd nearly need heated rims to get the tyres hot.

Manufacturers have barely had a go and trying anything different. For racing only Elf paired with Honda have had a serious go at doing something different. Unfortunately, the designers were trying to use the same ideas for making cars handle properly, mostly eliminate the weight transference that comes with front end dive. These days there's really only Vyrus, but they're less interested in racing than they are on being in a high end niche market.

The main reason BMW ended up dropping the Duolever was cost. They couldn't make as much profit out of it as they could from forks and that's been the single biggest advantage forks have had over almost everything else. That and conservatism - it's really difficult to get people to change to something even if it's better.

I've ridden a Duolever bike and had a great time on it. Admittedly I wasn't exactly pushing the thing to the limits though so I don't know what they're like on the limits but it handled an emergency braking (heading down an on-ramp, looked right for a gap to merge, looked forward again and the bastard in front of me had hit the brakes) way better than anything else I'd ridden.

It is.

And being closer together does not automatically make it better. 250 GP racing has been, and often was over the years, some of THE best racing I've ever seen.

No doubt some of the best racing ever has been in the 250GPs. One thing I do regret is not having raced right through that era because everyone I see that got onto 125GP and 250GP bikes early have beautiful riding styles. That's something that made riding the GP bikes different to production bikes. These days it's easy to mistake Moto2 riders for WSS riders. There's little to differentiate them now.

Doesn't stop me getting annoyed at people wahhing on about it all though. What we've got is Moto2 and GP bikes will never go back to being 250GP bikes. I want to see change and not just in the front forks but the engines as well. I'd love to see 4 strokes, 2 strokes, rotaries and whatever else people come up with racing each other.

[pritch]

I'd love to see 4 strokes, 2 strokes, rotaries and whatever else people come up with racing each other.

That would be expensive, they will settle for cheap, or as cheap as possible.

Many, but not all, of the recent decisions about rules have been to lower the cost of racing. At least one was to appear politically correct: the lowering of the fuel limits which cost shit loads because every team had banks of refrigerators to store fuel at low temperatures. Id rather watch a race than an economy run. Thank God they upped the limit.

To stop excessive expenditure on dual clutch technology, which as far as I know Honda alone had, DCT was banned. So Honda developed a seamless gearbox which probably cost them, and everybody else who has one now, millions to develop.

The most recent example was the banning of wings. In addition to safety concerns people were concerned about development costs. Unlike a wing on a car the bike wings are constantly changng their angle and wind tunnel time to explore all that in depth would have run to more millions.

So I guess we might as well enjoy what we have. Or not, if that's what turns your crank.

And the weather in Austria is cold and wet, but it's still Thursday, if only just.

[Mental Trousers]

That would be expensive, they will settle for cheap, or as cheap as possible.

Many, but not all, of the recent decisions about rules have been to lower the cost of racing. At least one was to appear politically correct: the lowering of the fuel limits which cost shit loads because every team had banks of refrigerators to store fuel at low temperatures. Id rather watch a race than an economy run. Thank God they upped the limit.

To stop excessive expenditure on dual clutch technology, which as far as I know Honda alone had, DCT was banned. So Honda developed a seamless gearbox which probably cost them, and everybody else who has one now, millions to develop.

The most recent example was the banning of wings. In addition to safety concerns people were concerned about development costs. Unlike a wing on a car the bike wings are constantly changng their angle and wind tunnel time to explore all that in depth would have run to more millions.

So I guess we might as well enjoy what we have. Or not, if that's what turns your crank.

And the weather in Austria is cold and wet, but it's still Thursday, if only just.

Yep, any change is expensive. Often rules aimed at making things cheaper backfire and teams spend way more on the loopholes/circumventing/alternatives.

I'm looking forward to the weekends racing. Watching the first round at a new/different track is always interesting.

[pritch]

Ahhh stuff it, here goes now't.

Iannone
Marquez
Dovi
Rossi
Pirro

Or something...

[roogazza]

Michelin bringing a couple of new rears,I'm hopeful ???

[Grumph]

Exoskeleton monocoque incorporating the fairing would be where I saw it going next. Weight figures could be reduces to the point that it'd nearly need heated rims to get the tyres hot.

Given the ever greater pressure to make engines last longer, this does actually become possible - the exoskeleton bit anyway...
One major problem when Honda did it with the NR500 was the time it took to get to any engine problems - and it had plenty.
If your engine MUST do X number of meetings before replacement, access is less of a problem.

Still doubt it'll happen as "what wins this year is last year's bike plus 5%" Mike Sinclair I think...

[Dadpole]

One major problem when Honda did it with the NR500 was the time it took to get to any engine problems

An additional problem was a relatively small bin could write off the frame

[Drew]

Given the ever greater pressure to make engines last longer, this does actually become possible - the exoskeleton bit anyway...
One major problem when Honda did it with the NR500 was the time it took to get to any engine problems - and it had plenty.
If your engine MUST do X number of meetings before replacement, access is less of a problem.

Still doubt it'll happen as "what wins this year is last year's bike plus 5%" Mike Sinclair I think...

Interlocking panels with modern composites could be removable without too much hassle. Carbon Kevlar wasn't what it is today in the NR days.

I wonder if the heated rims I joked about might actually have merit bow. Dani could do with more tyre temp.

[Drew]

An additional problem was a relatively small bin could write off the frame

A small bin fucks a race anyway. It only has to get back to the pits.