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Thread: Picking a trackday group

  1. #46
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    Picking a trackday group

    Quote Originally Posted by The End View Post
    Was hoping to get along to that track day but left getting a ticket too late (waited to see what the weather was doing) and the only group left was fast.

    Bugger to hear about the bins..

    How structured are non-ART days? I've only ever been to Hampton Downs during a ART run day and it was very structured/I didn't notice any nonsense riding. Hoping to get along to the next ART day
    I think the track days at HD are run very well indeed. Typical full track day there starts with sign-on from 7.30am and safety briefing at 9am. New riders to the track are also taken to one side and given a track overview followed by a few orientation laps following a control rider who shows them cornering lines. The first group then heads out about 9.30 with it all wrapped by 4.30pm.

    Usually eight x 14 min sessions for each of the four groups. I have been there on the odd day when only three groups run longer 20 min sessions due to limited numbers.

    Always lots of friendly banter in pit lane and garages along with offers of tools etc if you need to tweak anything.

    I'm heading back there on Sunday 20th December (there's an ART day on 19th but I'm skipping that one as there wasn't as much track time on the last outing).

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamianW View Post
    I think the track days at HD are run very well indeed. Typical full track day there starts with sign-on from 7.30am and safety briefing at 9am. New riders to the track are also taken to one side and given a track overview followed by a few orientation laps following a control rider who shows them cornering lines. The first group then heads out about 9.30 with it all wrapped by 4.30pm.

    Usually eight x 14 min sessions for each of the four groups. I have been there on the odd day when only three groups run longer 20 min sessions due to limited numbers.

    Always lots of friendly banter in pit lane and garages along with offers of tools etc if you need to tweak anything.

    I'm heading back there on Sunday 20th December (there's an ART day on 19th but I'm skipping that one as there wasn't as much track time on the last outing).
    8 x 14 minute sessions per group for the Playday on track days (non ART)?

    I think the last ART day I went to was 5 sessions, although I left after number 4.

    Bang for buck, looks like a Playday = more track time for your money, provided one does not want the added value ART provides (training and lunch )

    My only hesitation with going to a Non-ART day has been whether or not it would be chaos out on the track in the medium group where I would be in.

  3. #48
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    Picking a trackday group

    Quote Originally Posted by The End View Post
    8 x 14 minute sessions per group for the Playday on track days (non ART)?

    I think the last ART day I went to was 5 sessions, although I left after number 4.

    Bang for buck, looks like a Playday = more track time for your money, provided one does not want the added value ART provides (training and lunch )

    My only hesitation with going to a Non-ART day has been whether or not it would be chaos out on the track in the medium group where I would be in.
    You'll be fine in medium mate. Last Thursday between 4.30pm - 7.30pm we did 4 x 14 min sessions per group and it ran smoothly with 30 min breaks for a leak and drink in between. I think a very warm track with lots of grip helped. I find on full days that most bins are in the first and last sessions, but that's true anywhere really. HD T3 leaned over on cold left edges seems to catch a few people out.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by The End View Post
    8 x 14 minute sessions per group for the Playday on track days (non ART)?

    I think the last ART day I went to was 5 sessions, although I left after number 4.

    Bang for buck, looks like a Playday = more track time for your money, provided one does not want the added value ART provides (training and lunch )

    My only hesitation with going to a Non-ART day has been whether or not it would be chaos out on the track in the medium group where I would be in.
    I think they meant 6x.. I've done 2 daytime Playday days at HD and 1 twilight one in the last couple of months. For day ones it's always been 6x sessions for 4 groups (Novice, Medium-Slow, Medium-Fast, Fast). They squeeze in 4x sessions for 3 groups on the twilight days (Novice, Medium, Fast).

    I've been in Medium-Slow for both days and Medium at the twilight day on Thursday. It's not chaos out on track at all. As with everything you'll always get the odd random dude but by and large everyone gets it's a fun day not a race day.

    Quote Originally Posted by DamianW View Post
    You'll be fine in medium mate. Last Thursday between 4.30pm - 7.30pm we did 4 x 14 min sessions per group and it ran smoothly with 30 min breaks for a leak and drink in between. I think a very warm track with lots of grip helped. I find on full days that most bins are in the first and last sessions, but that's true anywhere really. HD T3 leaned over on cold left edges seems to catch a few people out.
    Yeah it's a long way between the lefts at T5 and T3 so that side of the tyre stays colder. I do two full laps (excluding the out lap) before I really hit the gas on T3 and T5 to make sure my tyres are proper warm - especially first session. All the right handers I'm good to go after the out lap and one full lap.

  5. #50
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    Picking a trackday group

    Yeah sorry, it's normally 6 sessions on a full day.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by The End View Post

    My only hesitation with going to a Non-ART day has been whether or not it would be chaos out on the track in the medium group where I would be in.
    I've been to a number of track days at Hampton, ART, Playday on Track and CSS. I have also been to a MotoTT day at Taupo. CSS is a proper training day and not a fair comparison to the others in terms of price.

    Out of ART and Playday the ART days are the best run with lots of marshals both on track and at flag points. They also run scrutineering of bikes and gear. There also seems to be a wider range of bikes in the lower groups and the attitude is more on learning so there are fewer heroes. I would say that the teaching sessions are a bit ad hoc and I got more out of them by concentrating on my own drills and chatting to the instructors one-on-one.

    The Playday on track days are run to a lower level, fewer marshals and no scutineering of the bikes or gear. However by and large people are well behaved, it is certainly not chaos on track. If you enjoyed ART then I wouldn't hesitate going to one of their days. As Damian pointed out the first and last sessions are often the worst. The twilight sessions are great value at $80 for 4 sessions.

    The one MotoTT day I have been to was awesome. Much much better than the Playday on Track ones. They give away lots of prizes and have plenty of marshals both off and on track. Will be going back to some more at Taupo next year.

  7. #52
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    vinducati- In my opinion The issue you have is a matter of perception.
    Racing lines tend to be different from fast lines and what a racer would concider acres of space a road rider will concider a close call.
    You will notice it particularly if you have recently done a superbike school where you were taught the "correct" line around a track.
    Youll have a racer come screaming past on totally the "wrong" line turn point and squirt away into the distance as you are getting all perfectly lined up for the corner. yep it can be unnerving but its rarely genuinely dangerous.
    My honest advice to you is to put your ear plugs in Your "blinkers" on and just do your own thing in the fast group.
    As long as you stay predictable you won't be a danger to the racers and they won't be an actual danger to you.
    Incidently --I like going in the slow group at times when I'm trying to figure out a corner/series of corners. It gives me time and space to focus.
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by FROSTY View Post
    vinducati- In my opinion The issue you have is a matter of perception.
    Racing lines tend to be different from fast lines and what a racer would concider acres of space a road rider will concider a close call.
    You will notice it particularly if you have recently done a superbike school where you were taught the "correct" line around a track.
    Youll have a racer come screaming past on totally the "wrong" line turn point and squirt away into the distance as you are getting all perfectly lined up for the corner. yep it can be unnerving but its rarely genuinely dangerous.
    My honest advice to you is to put your ear plugs in Your "blinkers" on and just do your own thing in the fast group.
    As long as you stay predictable you won't be a danger to the racers and they won't be an actual danger to you.
    Incidently --I like going in the slow group at times when I'm trying to figure out a corner/series of corners. It gives me time and space to focus.
    Thanks, yes I have done Levels 1, 2 and 3 of the CSS and it was great.
    I am happy to say I am very consistent thanks to the CSS.
    The racers are not normally an issue as you say.
    And yes, I have to tune out the odd idiot and focus on my riding.

    I would like to see scrutineering done at Play-days and Marshall at all turns.
    The ART days are very good, I think more having marshals at all turns is important.
    The will head down to Taupo this summer and do a Moto TT day.

    Thanks again for all the advice.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by FROSTY View Post
    vinducati- In my opinion The issue you have is a matter of perception.
    Racing lines tend to be different from fast lines and what a racer would concider acres of space a road rider will concider a close call.
    You will notice it particularly if you have recently done a superbike school where you were taught the "correct" line around a track.
    Youll have a racer come screaming past on totally the "wrong" line turn point and squirt away into the distance as you are getting all perfectly lined up for the corner. yep it can be unnerving but its rarely genuinely dangerous.
    My honest advice to you is to put your ear plugs in Your "blinkers" on and just do your own thing in the fast group.
    As long as you stay predictable you won't be a danger to the racers and they won't be an actual danger to you.
    Incidently --I like going in the slow group at times when I'm trying to figure out a corner/series of corners. It gives me time and space to focus.
    this is very good advise vinducati.
    I have done the CSS and raced so i firmly believe the misconception of what is close could be a fair call.
    I have been rounded up by young players who were somewhat upset that i passed them too close whereas i was in actual fact some 4 metres away. The speed for a new comer to be passed at is sometimes sometimes they are not used to and it does get a little un nerving. Relax and do your own thing for sure and no one will attempt to run into you. Well not on purpose of coarse.
    I too have done some slower groups with certain corners i want to sort out. Works well and i usually check to see if i have no traffic around to be able to do it without annoying someone else.
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinducati View Post
    The ART days are very good, I think more having marshals at all turns is important.
    The Playday guys put fixed marshals at the key flag points. From memory:

    Entering T1
    Entering T3 (this point can see T4)
    Entering T5 (this point can see T4 and I think T6)
    Exit of T6 in case there is something on the straight

    You don't *really* need a flag for T2 as you can see if someone is down there. Same for entering T6. With the short lap there is a roaming marshal just around the corner as well. I haven't found a situation where an incident was a surprise and I didn't get warning to slow down.

    Where else would you want marshals? Do ART do the full MNZ compliment or something?

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by discotex View Post

    Where else would you want marshals? Do ART do the full MNZ compliment or something?
    I believe they are MNZ compliant but not 100% on this.

    If you want more marshals, some of you will need to go do some days.
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  12. #57
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    It's my personal opinion that Marshalls and scrutinneering are good ideas and I may not ride at Playdays anymore due to this.
    I may be being overly cautious.
    On track Marshalls are good but last time I was there one of the Playday Marshall crashed, that doesn't seem right.

    If you don't need marshals at all the Marshall positions why do ART days do it?
    May I ask why Moto TT and ART do Scrutineering and not Playday, I presume it is a cost issue?
    Just asking?

  13. #58
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    I'm an ex racer, albeit a pretty average one, and totally used to being passed by very fast guys but it can still be un nerving experience, especially the passes just on corner entry.
    I learnt to relax, hold the line and never do anything unpredictable.
    90% of the time everything's fine, sometimes shit happens. I've been t boned, cut off, leant on, crashed dozens of times, concussed, burnt (and watched my bike burn) grazed and bruised. But that's racing, accept it or don't go.

    Track days are surely, by definition, not hugely different except the corner passing rules delete, mostly anyway, the most common disaster spots and the riding and passing in general is not as cut throat.
    I've done 3 track days at Hampton now, 2 on a very badly set up bike earlier this year that made me drop down to slow just so I could enjoy staying out there, and up.
    The last one was last Thursdays twilight in med. I was on a new to me R1 that I had just finished rebuilding, I've never had an IL4 (only twins), missed the first session, was running in an engine plus all the dramas of getting used to a new bike. And, saddest of all, I'm an old cunt now.
    I got passed by heaps of bikes but not one pass was a bad one and I never felt intimidated even while I was having some teething problems
    I'm guessing that one day, touch wood, shit will happen again. But surely that's the risk we knowingly take. The odds of nothing bad ever happening in that environment are slim.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinducati View Post
    It's my personal opinion that Marshalls and scrutinneering are good ideas and I may not ride at Playdays anymore due to this.
    I may be being overly cautious.
    On track Marshalls are good but last time I was there one of the Playday Marshall crashed, that doesn't seem right.

    If you don't need marshals at all the Marshall positions why do ART days do it?
    May I ask why Moto TT and ART do Scrutineering and not Playday, I presume it is a cost issue?
    Just asking?
    Vinducati The ART days are run under the Auckland Motorcycle club umbrella. They are not strictly speaking "track days" as such. They are rider training days -thus the name A Rider Training. (cant remember what the a was for)
    One part of the brief for the days when just a concept was to try to ensure as close to a race day experience as possible to ease transition from a fast trackdayer to a racer.
    That means normal marshalling,riders brief and yep scrutineering.
    There is a definite school of thought around scrutineering,First it chews up a lot of time and manpower. Second by not examining the machinery responsibility for the machine can only ever be the riders.
    Theres another issue with scrutineering.--BOY OHH BOY does it cause some heated discussions.
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  15. #60
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    Picking a trackday group

    Quote Originally Posted by vinducati View Post
    It's my personal opinion that Marshalls and scrutinneering are good ideas and I may not ride at Playdays anymore due to this.
    I may be being overly cautious.
    On track Marshalls are good but last time I was there one of the Playday Marshall crashed, that doesn't seem right.

    If you don't need marshals at all the Marshall positions why do ART days do it?
    May I ask why Moto TT and ART do Scrutineering and not Playday, I presume it is a cost issue?
    Just asking?
    Last ART day I went to (October iirc) our instructor (in group 3) crashed and took out one of the students :eek

    Whether a crash on the track is my own fault or someone else's I just accept the risk it may happen. Think I've done about 15 TD's so far with one off at T6 at HD back in April. So I can live with the odds to date of a 93% chance of staying on.

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