Rule change submissions close 1 March 2016 - be in to win.

[husaberg]

Read the quote and try again

I did read them all you said without the carb restriction the 110 would have too much power, You even repeated it a few more times for dramatic effect.
You even said you viewed it as a deliberate move on the MNZ behalf to limit the power. You stated quite clearly if the restriction on 110cc 24mm carb was lifted nothing would keep up with them.

I think the restricted carb would have been a deliberate decision, 110cc water cooled, open carb would make everything else obsolete.

I may well be proved wrong but I think we have pretty much found the limit for power production from the 24mm carb without the aid of a plenum or the like
A reliable 30hp out of a 110cc water cooler would be a piece of cake, its f##k all work and easily the winning option. This rule change is the nail in the air cooler coffin. Next year lets clear the way for an open carb size and finally push the 125 air coolers to the back of the sheds

Up to 110cc can be water cooled, but if greater than 104cc then restricted to 24mm carb.

Rob has suggested carb restrictions also in the past

I was just thinking NC (non competition) 125 2T but may be NC air cooled no other restriction and NC 125 2T water cooled with a suitable carb restriction.
.

actually most of the international kart classes are controlled by carb size as well, they view it as a fair way of keeping the playing feild even

[TZ350]

Rob has suggested carb restrictions also in the past

Proposing a group think 24mm comfy blanket as part of a new capacity rule is not the same as claiming there is evidence of its suitability for the purpose.



I used to believe but now, personally I don't think it will do you much good at all.

Correct, you did post the results of a one off test on a bike

I back what I say with evidence, let us see their evidence, I bet there is none other than group think blindly clinging to an old wives tale. But you could convince me, the people who are so adamant, just show me their tests, even on one bike will do.......

[TZ350]

actually most of the international kart classes are controlled by carb size as well, they view it as a fair way of keeping the playing field even

How many ostriches with their heads in the sand does it take to make a false assertion true.

[husaberg]

How many ostriches with their heads in the sand does it take to make a false assertion true.

It was at least three last year, do we need to adjust for inflation

I think the restricted carb would have been a deliberate decision, 110cc water cooled, open carb would make everything else obsolete.

I may well be proved wrong but I think we have pretty much found the limit for power production from the 24mm carb without the aid of a plenum or the like
A reliable 30hp out of a 110cc water cooler would be a piece of cake, its f##k all work and easily the winning option. This rule change is the nail in the air cooler coffin. Next year lets clear the way for an open carb size and finally push the 125 air coolers to the back of the sheds

Up to 110cc can be water cooled, but if greater than 104cc then restricted to 24mm carb.

Here is the rub
When you have two people both who coincidently both have air cooled bikes both suggesting the 24mm carb restriction is utterly irelevent anyway. Why is it so relevent that it must be removed?
I didn't see anyone suggesting that Kel was talking shit when he claimed the carb restiction would limit the power on a 110cc last year.

[BelindaS]

Hi. Everyone. My original question was

"New here. I'm looking at getting into bucket racing. And I'm very glade I came across this thread.
I was wondering if someone could explain to me the Competition Bike Rule i.e meaning"

Thank You for your replies to my question.

Engines must be based on non competition engines , so no gp bike , motocross , go kart or other competition engines or gearbox parts
a good guide would be commuter bikes. FXR150 is not a competition engine

A definition of a competition engine is needed but that's past my pay grade to think about.

I understand the 16.2 Rule.
- Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles (no GP). Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro
and Go Kart motor and transmission parts are not permitted.

So now I would like to know the definition of a "competition engine".

So if a FXR150 is not a competition engine.
What would have to happen to class it as competition engine.

[seymour14]

Hi. Everyone. My original question was

"New here. I'm looking at getting into bucket racing. And I'm very glade I came across this thread.
I was wondering if someone could explain to me the Competition Bike Rule i.e meaning"

Thank You for your replies to my question.







I understand the 16.2 Rule.
- Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles (no GP). Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro
and Go Kart motor and transmission parts are not permitted.

So now I would like to know the definition of a "competition engine".

So if a FXR150 is not a competition engine.
What would have to happen to class it as competition engine.

It would have been produced by its manufacturer for the sole purpose of racing, to be a competition engine.

I am waiting to find an RS125 commuter bike... Anyone got an aftermarket acetylene lighting kit?

[Yow Ling]

Hi. Everyone. My original question was

"New here. I'm looking at getting into bucket racing. And I'm very glade I came across this thread.
I was wondering if someone could explain to me the Competition Bike Rule i.e meaning"

Thank You for your replies to my question.







I understand the 16.2 Rule.
- Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles (no GP). Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro
and Go Kart motor and transmission parts are not permitted.

So now I would like to know the definition of a "competition engine".

So if a FXR150 is not a competition engine.
What would have to happen to class it as competition engine.

?Do you have an engine you are unsure about, ask our panel of experts

[BelindaS]

?Do you have an engine you are unsure about, ask our panel of experts

Hi Yow Ling

I'm pretty sure my question has been answered clearly, If I have correctly understood seymour14 kind reply to my question.

It would have been produced by its manufacturer for the sole purpose of racing, to be a competition engine.

I am waiting to find an RS125 commuter bike... Anyone got an aftermarket acetylene lighting kit?

The Honda RS125 is a competition Bike/engine
the Aprilia RS125 is not a competition Bike/engine. ( even though it looks like one )

Thank You for everyone's input in helping me with this.

Cheers B

[TZ350]

It was at least three last year, do we need to adjust for inflation

Some of those beach bumbs are inflated.

[TZ350]

I was wondering if someone could explain to me the Competition Bike Rule i.e meaning"

I understand the 16.2 Rule.
- Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles (no GP). Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and Go Kart motor and transmission parts are not permitted.

So now I would like to know the definition of a "competition engine".

So if a FXR150 is not a competition engine.
What would have to happen to class it as competition engine.

This bike has a competition engine.



This bike does not.

For Buckets you start with something non competition like the FXR150 commuter bike, and work on it as much as you wish. The rule is, "based on a non competition engine" then you can hot it up as much as you like.

But pretty much a near std FXR150 will make a very good F4 race bike.

[kel]

Here is the rub
When you have two people both who coincidently both have air cooled bikes both suggesting the 24mm carb restriction is utterly irelevent anyway.

I think the restricted carb would have been a deliberate decision, 110cc water cooled, open carb would make everything else obsolete.

This rule change is the nail in the air cooler coffin. Next year lets clear the way for an open carb size and finally push the 125 air coolers to the back of the sheds

Find your quote where have I said that the 24mm carb is irrelevant. What I have said is that the true limitation to air coolers is ...

You are absolutely right, there's an inherent design flaw i.e. air cooling.
Have a look at the air cooled racers and motocrossers from the seventies , they never made the sort of power we are pulling out of these things. The Japanese aren't silly, they could have made more power but they new to win first you have to finish.

We should call you selective edit!

[kel]

Here is the rub
When you have two people both who coincidently both have air cooled bikes.

Oh we sing from the same song sheet don't you worry about that. Besides, he's my mate and he has a dyno

[mr bucketracer]

Find your quote where have I said that the 24mm carb is irrelevant. What I have said is that the true limitation to air coolers is ...


24mm carb is irrelevant!!

oh man after all are work you say it now

[TALLIS]

Aprilia RS125 is not a competition Bike/engine. ( even though it looks like one )

Thank You for everyone's input in helping me with this.

Cheers B

Yes please do bring a aprilia 125 down to your local track. To be fair, if it is air cooled, I guess it is a comutter bike?

[BelindaS]

This bike has a competition engine.



This bike does not.

For Buckets you start with something non competition like the FXR150 commuter bike, and work on it as much as you wish. The rule is, "based on a non competition engine" then you can hot it up as much as you like.

But pretty much a near std FXR150 will make a very good F4 race bike.

Hi. TZ350
Thank You for your reply.

If I have this right. The first pic is of a Honda MX bike that competes in FIM sanctioned, malty manufactures, MX bike race. Competing not only for rider points but also Manufacturer points as well. So therefore a competition Bike/engine.
The second pic is of a Ducati Monster 1. A road bike. Which may have competed at club level events or even a one make series. However this still a Non Competition Bike/engine.

I hope that I have this correct

Cheers B