Rule change submissions close 1 March 2016 - be in to win.

[Bert]

This may very well be tested this weekend, if the bike was to be excluded, May very well force some interesting outcomes.

Esp if it is found to have a big bore kit...

[bucketracer]

This may very well be tested this weekend, if the bike was to be excluded, May very well force some interesting outcomes.

that is the spirit ..... reward the organizers with a bit of a difficult challenge, no sense in making it easy for them.

[F5 Dave]

This may very well be tested this weekend, if the bike was to be excluded, May very well force some interesting outcomes.

But didn't you exchange the original engine with anRS50 engine?

[TALLIS]

that is the spirit ..... reward the organizers with a bit of a difficult challenge, no sense in making it easy for them.

I have the up most respect for the organisers, they do a fantastic job and a good bunch of people. Mostly I was after feed back from the users/racers here on there views. It seems to have hit a nerve as most are so very quiet.
Now there is also a chocy fish up for grabs on the other little engine that maybe affected by this...

[TALLIS]

But didn't you exchange the original engine with anRS50 engine?

Ssshhhhhhhhhhhh

[wildman]

Hi Henk

From the beginning the engine has been the hart of the issue.

So I came on here to asked what defines a competition engine. And seymour14 replied with



I was further asked did I understand the reply so I answered



TZ350 added to this with



And I replied with this


TZ350 replied with



So my understanding as to this rule, was as long as the engine was from a road going bike. the engine is legal.

The engine in the LXM 155r 12
http://shop.pitsterpro.com/2009lxm155rtwelve.aspx

Is identical to the Forza FXR 155
http://www.nzmotorfactory.co.nz/inde...m=FORZA%20155Z

Both are manufactured and suplied by Zong Sheng (ZS) from China.

So to make this clear the Forza is a re bagged Pitsta Pro for the New Zealand market with Identical engine.

This is no different to
aprila rs 50 same as Derbi gpr 50
aprilia sx 50 same as Derbi DRD X-Treme 50 SM

NZ motor factory sell both the Pitsta Pro and Forza. Again I will state I have no affiliation with NZ motor factory.



Hi Speedpro

As to your first point the engine is available from a road legal bike. I could also add, just because it has a sticker or advertising blurb saying its a competition model does this make it so.
And to your second point about cc size, we gave information to different people about a crank that was used to bring the bike under the 150cc F4 rule.
This one
http://shop.pitsterpro.com/53mmgpxyx150crank.aspx

This crank was installed a ran for some time, then broke. At that point the standard crank of 55mm was put back in. Which still complied with the 158.06 over bore rule.

As some are a wear the engine is based of a Honda CT 110. the engine comes in many different sizes from 125cc up to 160cc by changing bore or stroke.
Their are three cranks that fit this bike 53mm =149.85cc 55mm = 155.51cc and 57mm = 161.16cc the bore is 60mm.




Hi bucketracer
They are different bikes but the same engine. As I have explained

Cheers B

Hi Belinda i can solve all your problems real easy, take the engine out of your pit bike, cut the frame around a little , add some more steel, fit a go-kart wheel somewhere, add a Lonchin150 and presto you have a Bucket Sidecar. And much more fun than running with those solo poofters Wait a minute i just remembered who mostly race the sidecars As you were.

[speedpro]

. . . .
2 - The capacity of the bikes to start with, 155cc. That means they do not technically comply with the MNZ rules which I have posted below. Technically they must start out at a maximum capacity of less than 150cc. They can then be bored to 158.09cc. Technically I think if you started with an earlier 140cc engine, and could get over the "competition engine" hurdle, then you would be OK.

Quoting myself?

Bert made a comment about what I said a few posts back. He pointed out that if what I said above is correct then things like my cut in half FZR are illegal as the engine started out at a capacity greater than 150cc. Nigel's sleeved down RGV100 is also illegal as originally it was a 125cc watercooled 2T. In my mind there has never been any thoughts from anyone along those lines, certainly none directed to me at least. In actual fact the rules do not stipulate that engines must originally be 150cc(4T) or less. The "150cc" in the MNZ rules seems more a label and the 158.09cc is the actual capacity limit.
That being the case it seems that any non-competition engine that is of a lesser capacity than 158.09cc 4T should be allowed to compete. My thoughts are that this rule is needlessly complex and there should simply be a maximum capacity stated for various types of engines in the various classes.

How the capacity is arrived at is immaterial and that has been the bucket ethos for as long as I can remember which is way before MNZ was involved.

[Bert]

Quoting myself?

Bert made a comment about what I said a few posts back. He pointed out that if what I said above is correct then things like my cut in half FZR are illegal as the engine started out at a capacity greater than 150cc. Nigel's sleeved down RGV100 is also illegal as originally it was a 125cc watercooled 2T. In my mind there has never been any thoughts from anyone along those lines, certainly none directed to me at least. In actual fact the rules do not stipulate that engines must originally be 150cc(4T) or less. The "150cc" in the MNZ rules seems more a label and the 158.09cc is the actual capacity limit.
That being the case it seems that any non-competition engine that is of a lesser capacity than 158.09cc 4T should be allowed to compete. My thoughts are that this rule is needlessly complex and there should simply be a maximum capacity stated for various types of engines in the various classes.

How the capacity is arrived at is immaterial and that has been the bucket ethos for as long as I can remember which is way before MNZ was involved.

I can't give you any more rep (good rep).

You have hit the nail on the head regarding bucket ethos and how many read the rules around maximum rebore limit (being the max capacity). But of course it can be interpreted both ways (the ambergity in the intent of the rule is problematic)..
If the ambergity has been applied as a sledgehammer then in one way; then it needs to be applied across the board (note I'm not saying it has nor will be: but it does provide an interesting conversation starter for Friday beers)...

[chrisc]

but it does provide an interesting conversation starter for Friday beers)...

I know most all of you on here and have loads of respect for each one of you but please, please, if you absolutely MUST bring these conversations up, please don't ruin one of the best racing weekends of the entire year with a cat fight. Remember we're all just here for some fun. Whilst rules are important, they're not so important as to destroy the amazing class that is buckets.

I'm super looking forward to this weekend

[F5 Dave]

I think the big challenge for us all to consider is how to keep the beer cold for Saturday night.

[Grumph]

Quoting myself?

Bert made a comment about what I said a few posts back. He pointed out that if what I said above is correct then things like my cut in half FZR are illegal as the engine started out at a capacity greater than 150cc. Nigel's sleeved down RGV100 is also illegal as originally it was a 125cc watercooled 2T. In my mind there has never been any thoughts from anyone along those lines, certainly none directed to me at least. In actual fact the rules do not stipulate that engines must originally be 150cc(4T) or less. The "150cc" in the MNZ rules seems more a label and the 158.09cc is the actual capacity limit.
That being the case it seems that any non-competition engine that is of a lesser capacity than 158.09cc 4T should be allowed to compete. My thoughts are that this rule is needlessly complex and there should simply be a maximum capacity stated for various types of engines in the various classes.

How the capacity is arrived at is immaterial and that has been the bucket ethos for as long as I can remember which is way before MNZ was involved.

I think the big challenge for us all to consider is how to keep the beer cold for Saturday night.

Speedpro is correct in that the rules do not stipulate the engines used have to be less than 150cc originally - neither do they say they can't start out larger than 150cc - only that they must come from a non competition motorcycle. I tend to agree that that the "overbore" wording is ambiguous and things would be clearer with a straightforward maximum capacity.

Dave - just keep the beer away from the hot air.......

[seymour14]

I know most all of you on here and have loads of respect for each one of you but please, please, if you absolutely MUST bring these conversations up, please don't ruin one of the best racing weekends of the entire year with a cat fight. Remember we're all just here for some fun. Whilst rules are important, they're not so important as to destroy the amazing class that is buckets.

I'm super looking forward to this weekend

But I was going to protest anyone and everyone if they failed to do port on the corner...

[Henk]

that is the spirit ..... reward the organizers with a bit of a difficult challenge, no sense in making it easy for them.

Dead right. Anybody up for running the NI series? I've had so much of a guts full of all the whinging I'm starting to seriously consider walking away from the whole deal.

[FastFred]

if you absolutely MUST bring these conversations up, please don't ruin one of the best racing weekends of the entire year with a cat fight.

I wouldn't worry, things sometimes need talking about and when you have had your say, threads like this make it easy to leave it all behind when the serious weekend racing fun begins. roll on Fridaynight .....

[FastFred]

there should simply be a maximum capacity stated for various types of engines in the various classes.

+ 1 ................. maybe a good conversation for later in the year.