Rule change submissions close 1 March 2016 - be in to win.

[kel]

Whilst rules are important, they're not so important

That's exactly what I tell my kids and the authorities.

[mr bucketracer]

Dead right. Anybody up for running the NI series? I've had so much of a guts full of all the whinging I'm starting to seriously consider walking away from the whole deal.

and we all turn up to the meeting and forgot all about this everytime lol

[TZ350]

... there should simply be a maximum capacity stated for various types of engines in the various classes. ...

I think so too, it would tidy up a lot of unnecessary ambiguity.

[BelindaS]

Hay. Guys

Re the new supplementary regulations

A little bit of history.

Just letting you know that to reduce any further confusion we have added a new supplementary
regulation to all of our events going forward and that is pit bikes such as but not limited to Forza Thumpster and Pitsta Pro are not eligible. And the final discussion as to what does and doesn't constitute a pit bike is at the discretion of the steward of the meeting and the machine examiner.

Brian Steffensen

My friend was excluded form the Mt Wellington event. (After he had spent 40+ minutes cleaning the track with his weed blower. The timing was. Excelliant )
And the reason he was exclude from the Mt Wellington event. Given by both the Steward and Clark of the Course, was on the grounds that the engine did not start of within the F4 4t class of 55-150cc. And on those grounds it was a MNZ health and safety reason that he was being excluded.
My friend excepted the ruling.

But he also pointed out to both the Steward and Clark of the Course that the two Darbi's racing that day in the F4 2T class 55-100cc. Also did start out within the F4 2T class as well, being 49.9cc.
Therefore under the same ruling they exclude him. Then the two Darbi's should be excluded as well. being a "MNZ health and safety" reason.
They both choose to ignore that. He then asked. How can you ignore your own ruling which includes the Derbi, on the grounds it was a "MNZ health and safety reason" as well.
The stewards reply was 'WE ARE MNZ"


He was directed by the Steward and Clark of the Course to go to MNZ.
So he went to MNZ to get the engine clarified.
The two questions that need to be clarified. As directed by the Steward and Clark of the Course was
1. Is it a competition engine.
2. Does the engine comply with the F4 4T class of 55-150cc with the 158.06 over bore rule

And the decision made by the Road Race Commissioner (Obviously without throwing the toys out of the MNZ health and safety cot)

Now all pit bikes, The frames and the suspension and their engines are Banned.

And the final discussion as to what does and doesn't constitute a pit bike is at the discretion of the steward of the meeting and the machine examiner.

And of course, none of this is following F.I.M regulation. ie Following the protest rule or process.



OK OK OK So now moving forward. And forgetting all the above. With the spirit of bucket racing in mind.

My friend and I are looking to see what we can use and or build for use in the (F4 class) Miniature road racing! (Buckets)
Obviously there are two main engines to choose from at the moment. The FXR 150 or the Derbi 50.
Well maybe not the Derbi 50 engine i.e the AM6 engine.

Based on the following grounds and precedents that have now been set with the experience with the Pit Bike.
The Derbi 50 doesn't comply ether. Or does it?

1. It is out side the F4 2T class range. (The reason given for my friends exclusion from the Mt Wellington race.) MNZ "health and safety" reason

2. The AM6 engine is also available in a Pit Bike!
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detai....29.161.VDsajl
And due to the new ruling it could be construed that it is a Pit Bike engine. well it is, as its in one.

3. All the literature I have read on line for the 80cc barrels or big bore kits, say they are racing parts or derived from racing engines.

So as far as I can tell the AM6 engine is now or was always illegal with a big bore kit.

Is this right or wrong. Moving forward, he doesn't want to turn up with a illegal bike.

Speedpro is correct in that the rules do not stipulate the engines used have to be less than 150cc originally - neither do they say they can't start out larger than 150cc - only that they must come from a non competition motorcycle. I tend to agree that that the "overbore" wording is ambiguous and things would be clearer with a straightforward maximum capacity.

It's now a health and safety issue brought up by MNZ officials.

Hi Belinda i can solve all your problems real easy, take the engine out of your pit bike, cut the frame around a little , add some more steel, fit a go-kart wheel somewhere, add a Lonchin150 and presto you have a Bucket Sidecar. And much more fun than running with those solo poofters Wait a minute i just remembered who mostly race the sidecars As you were.

Lonchin 150 have now Been banned.

I can't give you any more rep (good rep).

You have hit the nail on the head regarding bucket ethos and how many read the rules around maximum rebore limit (being the max capacity). But of course it can be interpreted both ways (the ambergity in the intent of the rule is problematic)..
If the ambergity has been applied as a sledgehammer then in one way; then it needs to be applied across the board (note I'm not saying it has nor will be: but it does provide an interesting conversation starter for Friday beers)...

I think this is the only place that this can be discussed at the moment and it is appropriate that people get to voice their opinion in an open forum.

Quote Originally Posted by speedpro View Post
... there should simply be a maximum capacity stated for various types of engines in the various classes. ...
I think so too, it would tidy up a lot of unnecessary ambiguity.

And I agree totally

[seymour14]

I would be coming at all this from the opposite angle, and that is that the frame is not allowing a style of riding that fits within the rest of the class. That appears to be more where this has come from in a Health and Safety perspective.

As for the engines, this really does need to be discussed openly and fairly after the GP, there are "grey" areas and maybe even a few unintentional rule breakers now. Or possibly none at all.

Some interesting discussions may be had with a few beverages in hand this Friday night.

I'll bring the knuckle dusters...

[kel]

I would be coming at all this from the opposite angle, and that is that the frame is not allowing a style of riding that fits within the rest of the class.:

Fully agree, this is the at the heart of the pit bike exclusion.

Some interesting discussions may be had with a few beverages in hand this Friday night.
I'll bring the knuckle dusters...

I guess I should be fronting for this, but won't be. The submitted rule changes will be out for discussion soon enough, my door (and inbox) is always open for sensible discussion.

[Grumph]

An open reply to Belinda..

You're pushing a barrow uphill. You appear to be trying to graft pitbikes onto buckets for some unknown purpose.

They are different animals. Ridden in different styles. The styles are not compatible. Motards do not run with roadrace bikes for vey good reasons.

You appear to have been offered your own races. I consider that this was as far as a bucket club could have been expected to go.

If this arrangement was not satisfactory to you, you should have investigated running your own meetings. There are precedents where new types and classes have done just that.

You will not be forgiven easily for causing the amount of discord which has resulted from your efforts to muddy the rules.

I'm extremely thankful we don't see anyone stupid enough to try and run pitbikes with buckets on the big tracks down here.

[BelindaS]

An open reply to Belinda..

You're pushing a barrow uphill. You appear to be trying to graft pitbikes onto buckets for some unknown purpose.

They are different animals. Ridden in different styles. The styles are not compatible. Motards do not run with roadrace bikes for vey good reasons.

You appear to have been offered your own races. I consider that this was as far as a bucket club could have been expected to go.

If this arrangement was not satisfactory to you, you should have investigated running your own meetings. There are precedents where new types and classes have done just that.

You will not be forgiven easily for causing the amount of discord which has resulted from your efforts to muddy the rules.

I'm extremely thankful we don't see anyone stupid enough to try and run pitbikes with buckets on the big tracks down here.

Hi Grump
Thank you for your reply.

As I said we are moving forward. Planing on using a FXR chassis and wheels. So that there would be no confusion as to it being a "pit bike". Was looking at what engines we could possibly use and at they moment, the most used ones were stated. The FXR 150 or Derbi 50 with a big bore kit. But looking into it the Derbi 50. It has issues as stated in my previous post. I'm posting my concerns as I feel they are justified and hope for a honest debate about those concerns. As we don't want any more issues moving forward.

[TZ350]

... there should simply be a maximum capacity stated for various types of engines in the various classes. ...

I think so too, it would tidy up a lot of unnecessary ambiguity.

And I agree totally

It is not just about the engine capacity.

It may be too late for your favorite style of pit bike now as you seem to have made them unwelcome at Mt Wellington and any other race meeting where the AMCC Bucket comity is involved in the organisation.

A legal engine slotted into a FXR chassis, now that is probably worth looking at. It is probably time to stop talking and start working.

[jasonu]

Hay. Guys

Re the new supplementary regulations

A little bit of history.



My friend was excluded form the Mt Wellington event. (After he had spent 40+ minutes cleaning the track with his weed blower. The timing was. Excelliant )
And the reason he was exclude from the Mt Wellington event. Given by both the Steward and Clark of the Course, was on the grounds that the engine did not start of within the F4 4t class of 55-150cc. And on those grounds it was a MNZ health and safety reason that he was being excluded.
My friend excepted the ruling.

But he also pointed out to both the Steward and Clark of the Course that the two Darbi's racing that day in the F4 2T class 55-100cc. Also did start out within the F4 2T class as well, being 49.9cc.
Therefore under the same ruling they exclude him. Then the two Darbi's should be excluded as well. being a "MNZ health and safety" reason.
They both choose to ignore that. He then asked. How can you ignore your own ruling which includes the Derbi, on the grounds it was a "MNZ health and safety reason" as well.
The stewards reply was 'WE ARE MNZ"


He was directed by the Steward and Clark of the Course to go to MNZ.
So he went to MNZ to get the engine clarified.
The two questions that need to be clarified. As directed by the Steward and Clark of the Course was
1. Is it a competition engine.
2. Does the engine comply with the F4 4T class of 55-150cc with the 158.06 over bore rule

And the decision made by the Road Race Commissioner (Obviously without throwing the toys out of the MNZ health and safety cot)

Now all pit bikes, The frames and the suspension and their engines are Banned.


And of course, none of this is following F.I.M regulation. ie Following the protest rule or process.



OK OK OK So now moving forward. And forgetting all the above. With the spirit of bucket racing in mind.

My friend and I are looking to see what we can use and or build for use in the (F4 class) Miniature road racing! (Buckets)
Obviously there are two main engines to choose from at the moment. The FXR 150 or the Derbi 50.
Well maybe not the Derbi 50 engine i.e the AM6 engine.

Based on the following grounds and precedents that have now been set with the experience with the Pit Bike.
The Derbi 50 doesn't comply ether. Or does it?

1. It is out side the F4 2T class range. (The reason given for my friends exclusion from the Mt Wellington race.) MNZ "health and safety" reason

2. The AM6 engine is also available in a Pit Bike!
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detai....29.161.VDsajl
And due to the new ruling it could be construed that it is a Pit Bike engine. well it is, as its in one.

3. All the literature I have read on line for the 80cc barrels or big bore kits, say they are racing parts or derived from racing engines.

So as far as I can tell the AM6 engine is now or was always illegal with a big bore kit.

Is this right or wrong. Moving forward, he doesn't want to turn up with a illegal bike.



It's now a health and safety issue brought up by MNZ officials.



Lonchin 150 have now Been banned.



I think this is the only place that this can be discussed at the moment and it is appropriate that people get to voice their opinion in an open forum.



And I agree totally

Maybe you should try karting as you sound like a big enough cunt and you would fit right in.

[mr bucketracer]

Maybe you should try karting as you sound like a big enough cunt and you would fit right in.

shut up...this dose not help

[F5 Dave]

Dead right. Anybody up for running the NI series? I've had so much of a guts full of all the whinging I'm starting to seriously consider walking away from the whole deal.

That indeed would be a great loss Henk. The rest of us appreciate the hard work the organisers put in and the greif the whingers inflict.

[F5 Dave]

. . .

Dave - just keep the beer away from the hot air.......

Easier said when we arrive sat morning or Fri night and want a cold bevie at the campsite (track)

We actually had some rain here today. I'd forgotten about that stuff. Evaporated by now though.

[Drew]

There is no rule what so ever that says you must ride any line, with all limbs on it's appropriate peg/bar.

The health and safety line was obviously a bollucks answer to end a conversation they didn't want to have.

If anyone asked leaf blower man to do that before he was excluded, I'm impressed they didn't end up getting the thing wrapped upside they head.

[jasonu]

There is no rule what so ever that says you must ride any line, with all limbs on it's appropriate peg/bar.

The health and safety line was obviously a bollucks answer to end a conversation they didn't want to have.

If anyone asked leaf blower man to do that before he was excluded, I'm impressed they didn't end up getting the thing wrapped upside they head.

Ever tried riding a bucket with pit bikes on the track. They take totally different corner lines and the chance of either tee boning one or being tee boned by one are really great. Same as when motards were allowed to ride within F3 (I think) which is why they were kicked into their own class. It would be totally irresponsible of the organizers to not act on a potentially dangerous situation.
Really though, there is nothing worse than some dick trying to fuck with the rules to suit their own agenda. Either get yourself on a rules compliant machine, and there are plenty to choose from or build your own which also isn't terribly difficult, or fuck off.