Rule change submissions close 1 March 2016 - be in to win.

[husaberg]

There is no rule what so ever that says you must ride any line, with all limbs on it's appropriate peg/bar.

The health and safety line was obviously a bollucks answer to end a conversation they didn't want to have.

If anyone asked leaf blower man to do that before he was excluded, I'm impressed they didn't end up getting the thing wrapped upside they head.

Drew I posted the supplementary rules that the MNZ actually insist on for street racing.
Motards and superlights are not to be run together.

PORT NELSON STREET RACES : SATURDAY 2nd January 2016 MNZ Permit # 15788
Supplementary Regulations: Motards are only eligible to enter the Motard Class. No cross entering will be allowed. This is in the interest of safety.

Paeroa Battle of the Streets Motorcycle Street Race Sunday FEBRUARY 21st 2016 Permit No 15873
9. Supermoto machine shall elect to ride in one of the following classes, BEARS (if eligible) or Supermoto. Final eligibility decision rests with the organiser whose decision shall be final. They are banned from Superlite

METHVEN MOUNTAIN THUNDER STREET RACE 2016 SUPPLEMENTARY RULES.
SUPERMOTARDS: as per MNZ rules. Motards are only eligible for the Motard class

GREYMOUTH MOTOR CYCLE STREET RACE SUNDAY 27TH OCTOBER 2013 (LABOUR WEEKEND) PERMIT 14575
Due to the tight nature of our circuit Supermotard machines can not cross enter into any other class.

[Drew]

Ever tried riding a bucket with pit bikes on the track. They take totally different corner lines and the chance of either tee boning one or being tee boned by one are really great. Same as when motards were allowed to ride within F3 (I think) which is why they were kicked into their own class. It would be totally irresponsible of the organizers to not act on a potentially dangerous situation.
Really though, there is nothing worse than some dick trying to fuck with the rules to suit their own agenda. Either get yourself on a rules compliant machine, and there are plenty to choose from or build your own which also isn't terribly difficult, or fuck off.

But earlier in the thread, everyone wanted to hold hands and sing koombaya, and try and make classic buckets work.

Yes, I have ridden a bucket and been stuck behind a motard one. Fuck it was fast off the turns. I also raced post classics when it was combined with F3 and motard, and B.E.A.Rs when Briggs was punting his Superduke. The last one is a good example, because I actually tagged his back wheel and took a flying lesson off the high side of the 749R. He was holding me up and I misjudged where I could pass him. Not his fault in the slightest, and he had as much right to be there as I did.

[Bert]

Hi Grump
Thank you for your reply.

As I said we are moving forward. Planing on using a FXR chassis and wheels. So that there would be no confusion as to it being a "pit bike". Was looking at what engines we could possibly use and at they moment, the most used ones were stated. The FXR 150 or Derbi 50 with a big bore kit. But looking into it the Derbi 50. It has issues as stated in my previous post. I'm posting my concerns as I feel they are justified and hope for a honest debate about those concerns. As we don't want any more issues moving forward.

Positive move.
Not knowing the full story, but on the face of it.
It's a good outcome if you have enjoyed the racing and despite the issue at hand; that you want to carry on being a part of the community and racing.

FXR chassis are a great starting point (being honest they are a little heavy, but with some minor changes can be made to work very well).
Yes, there are several views on said concerns re engines (not the FXR engine); something that really needs discussion. Sounds like something has been submitted, not sure that's the solution.
Would have liked the community to have resolved it. But given the toys and cots of late - it would have never happened...

But there are plenty of other engine options available (a TF/TS/ER 100/125 twostroke fits in a FXR frame very easily and produce good power).




Drew, can we sing koombaya together buddy?? You can take the high notes.

[Kickaha]

They take totally different corner lines and the chance of either tee boning one or being tee boned by one are really great.

Sounds like fucking near any Bucket race I've ever been in

[jasonu]

Hi Grump
Thank you for your reply.

Planing on using a FXR chassis and wheels. Was looking at what engines we could possibly use and at they moment, .

Why the hell didn't you do this in the first place instead of causing a big shit storm over something you were told was resolved many moons ago?

[Drew]

Sounds like fucking near any Bucket race I've ever been in

I was trying to keep that wee gem for later on. But it seems I don't get many responses since I stopped being abusive and calling everyone a cunt.

[Drew]

Why the hell didn't you do this in the first place instead of causing a big shit storm over something you were told was resolved many moons ago?

If the rules aren't clear (and they obviously arent), exploit them. That's how it works in every constructor class.

[Grumph]

If the rules aren't clear (and they obviously arent), exploit them. That's how it works in every constructor class.

I quite agree, I've made a career out of reading the rulebook and building motors in the loopholes, LOL.

BUT - what you don't do is ask MNZ for a clarification - EVER !!

The only time a clarification is needed it should be done by a protest committee - or an Appeal Committee. Both of those are bound by the rule book - not by one indivdual's interpretation. An opinion is not a rule.

[Bert]

I quite agree, I've made a career out of reading the rulebook and building motors in the loopholes, LOL.

BUT - what you don't do is ask MNZ for a clarification - EVER !!

The only time a clarification is needed it should be done by a protest committee - or an Appeal Committee. Both of those are bound by the rule book - not by one indivdual's interpretation. An opinion is not a rule.

It's a shame rule submissions are not treated with the same level of scrutiny as done by the protest / appeals committee - else the errors currently in the MOMs wouldn't exist...

[Grumph]

It's a shame rule submissions are not treated with the same level of scrutiny as done by the protest / appeals committee - else the errors currently in the MOMs wouldn't exist...

Well they have to look hard at the book - you've paid a fee to make them do it, LOL....

But I suspect the proofreader did it for free....

[wildman]

There is no rule what so ever that says you must ride any line, with all limbs on it's appropriate peg/bar.

The health and safety line was obviously a bollucks answer to end a conversation they didn't want to have.

If anyone asked leaf blower man to do that before he was excluded, I'm impressed they didn't end up getting the thing wrapped upside they head.

Bloody hell now Drew's in on this, Haven't you got a sidecar to re-engineer?.

[Henk]

The guy with the bike in question was not asked to get his leaf blower out, he did that off his own bat. He has also been told since he turned up that his bike was ineligible because of the ENGINE, we also told him that if they got six bikes they could have a race of their own, they managed that once.
We told him that if he could show that his engine was legal that we would allow it. The only response we got was "the Pitster proXXX uses a zongshen engine, the Forza involved has a zongshen engine" that is like saying a duck is a bird, a pigeon is a bird, therefore a pigeon is a duck.

I'm obviously not an unbiased party in this mainly because one of the protagonists has spent the better part of an hour shouting at me about this in the pits, which makes something I do for fun not fun.

As for BelindaS, the only way the amount of information she has on this issue makes sense is if I have spoken to her before, which I suspect is the case, and which makes the name on her drivers licence Jason, and his only interest in buckets isn't racing but being a mouthpiece for the guy who wants to race a bike that doesn't meet the rules, and who we have bent over backwards to accomodate.

[TZ350]

I'm obviously not an unbiased party in this mainly because one of the protagonists has spent the better part of an hour shouting at me about this in the pits.

As for BelindaS, the only way the amount of information she has on this issue makes sense is if I have spoken to her before, which I suspect is the case, and his only interest in buckets isn't racing but being a mouthpiece for the guy who wants to race a bike that doesn't meet the rules.

Belinda might be on a mission or just enjoying trolling trying to generate some sympathy for his friends cause but it has got us talking and thinking.

What I see is, organizers and particularly the steward carry quite a legal liability if things go wrong at a meeting. So it is pretty easy to see that allowing an inappropriate bike on the track that is then involved in an injury incident would leave them very legally exposed. That alone justifies the organizers right to be picky about what bikes are Bucket and track appropriate and meet the F4 - F5 and general Road Racing machine and MNZ's rider/spectator behavior rules.



The underlying ethos of Buckets is to take a non competition bike/engine and make something of it.



A Bucket can be as simple as a FXR150 with the road gear stripped off and ridden for shits and giggles. And that is enough for some people. Others might like to take it a little further and fit more suitable wheels and slicks and then there are the tuning crazies like myself.

Buckets is about making something from a bike that was not originally intended for competition, the defining requirement is having to make changes to the original purpose of the bike.



It is hard to think of a pitbike as a serious competition machine but it fails the Bucket legal test because it is a purpose built bike, made to be ridden in competitive events with no work required. To compete with it you do not have to make any changes to its original purpose and that is what puts it off side legally with Buckets.

Maybe if the engine by itself is found to be legal, like purchased as a crate engine with the same specs as an overseas road legal mini bike and the rolling chassis by itself is certainly legal but probably not appropriate for Buckets. Use the engine in something else like a FXR chassis, or buy a pitbike chassis of Trade me for $5 and fit an FXR150 motor or something like a TF/TS125 to it, you would have something because both scenarios look like they could be legit, although they maybe not that welcome.

What you cant do is pickup a cheap pitbike rolling chassis and fit a pitbike engine sourced from somewhere else because that is just a restored pitbike.

In summary, this is the way I see it. (1) In the end the organizers have a right to refuse entry to whatever makes them feel uncomfortable and (2) if a bikes original purpose however lame is competition then it by definition is not Bucket legal.

So as I see it Belinda there are two requirements, not only does it have to be Bucket legal, maybe more importantly the organizers have to be comfortable with it or they are within their rights to not let it out on the track.

And if the organizers don't like your behavior they are within their legal rights to send you packing.

[wildman]

The guy with the bike in question was not asked to get his leaf blower out, he did that off his own bat. He has also been told since he turned up that his bike was ineligible because of the ENGINE, we also told him that if they got six bikes they could have a race of their own, they managed that once.
We told him that if he could show that his engine was legal that we would allow it. The only response we got was "the Pitster proXXX uses a zongshen engine, the Forza involved has a zongshen engine" that is like saying a duck is a bird, a pigeon is a bird, therefore a pigeon is a duck.

I'm obviously not an unbiased party in this mainly because one of the protagonists has spent the better part of an hour shouting at me about this in the pits, which makes something I do for fun not fun.

As for BelindaS, the only way the amount of information she has on this issue makes sense is if I have spoken to her before, which I suspect is the case, and which makes the name on her drivers licence Jason, and his only interest in buckets isn't racing but being a mouthpiece for the guy who wants to race a bike that doesn't meet the rules, and who we have bent over backwards to accomodate.

Good on you and well said Henk

[BelindaS]

The guy with the bike in question was not asked to get his leaf blower out, he did that off his own bat. He has also been told since he turned up that his bike was ineligible because of the ENGINE, we also told him that if they got six bikes they could have a race of their own, they managed that once.
We told him that if he could show that his engine was legal that we would allow it. The only response we got was "the Pitster proXXX uses a zongshen engine, the Forza involved has a zongshen engine" that is like saying a duck is a bird, a pigeon is a bird, therefore a pigeon is a duck.

I'm obviously not an unbiased party in this mainly because one of the protagonists has spent the better part of an hour shouting at me about this in the pits, which makes something I do for fun not fun.

As for BelindaS, the only way the amount of information she has on this issue makes sense is if I have spoken to her before, which I suspect is the case, and which makes the name on her drivers licence Jason, and his only interest in buckets isn't racing but being a mouthpiece for the guy who wants to race a bike that doesn't meet the rules, and who we have bent over backwards to accomodate.

Hi Henk

You are seriously are beating a dead horse here and you and whoever killed the horse!

As I have stated before the leaf blower guy has moved on.