Rule change submissions close 1 March 2016 - be in to win.

[richban]

Let me expand a little on this. While I don't want to reignite the MX85 debate we already have the equivalent in buckets. If I had a Derbi 50 I could buy an aftermarket multi plate complete clutch kit, a close ratio gear set, a multi port race orientated cylinder (label it sport, competition or racing, I don't care as its not from a Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro or Go Kart motor), super fancy cranks, special heads, etc, etc. And guess what they come in 110cc kits!

So what do we think, something along the lines of "aftermarket parts must be the same or equal in construction to OEM parts" Help me out here please

Ok ok. I will bite. Tell me how the above hurts the sport? Explain to me how this really hurts the sport. "THE SPORT" as in motorcycle racing. Not fucking about in your shed. I think the best change that should be submitted is open mods and capacity restricted. I think they might get submitted this year. F4. Water cooled 2 strokes 104cc and under. Air cooled 2 strokes 126cc and under. Water cooled 4 valve 4 strokes 152cc and under. Air cooled 4 strokes 170cc and under. Air cool 2 valve 4 strokes 192cc and under. F5 52cc open 2 strokes 104cc open 4 strokes.


Fuck yeah. Lets do it. Who's with me?

[TZ350]

I think the best change that should be submitted is open mods and capacity restricted. Fuck yeah. Lets do it. Who's with me?

Would that exclude the super/turbo charged 2T and 4T's?

I am for anything that simplifies the rules and encourages unlimited innovation.

[Grumph]

First rule of rule changes is - Don't obsolete what you've already got. With stated capacities tweaked to match existing limits - and within the existing "non competition origins" of the engines, why not.

[TZ350]

Water cooled 4 valve 4 strokes 152cc and under. Air cooled 4 strokes 170cc and under. Air cool 2 valve 4 strokes 192cc and under.

Good idea, opens up a whole range of options, you have covered air and water cooled but where does the Oil cooled 4T's like the FXR150 fit into this?



Suzuki FXR150 SACS (suzuki advanced cooling system).

[richban]

Good idea, opens up a whole range of options, but where does the Oil cooled 4T's like the FXR150 fit into this?

170 cc.

The numbers need to be worked out so with proper tuning the bikes will reach around the 30hp mark. But they also need to not kill off the current bikes. Too build a 27hp fxr 158cc is not easy at all. So thats close to 175hp per litre from that bike. So make that a 170 and you should be close to 30. But you will still have to spend cash on cams porting and exhaust design to get there... The people in this discussion know full well that there would be advantages and disadvantages for each configuration. It would not change much at all. Turners should be happy. And racers probably don't give a fuck.

There could be more bums on seats and growth for Motocycle road racing in NZ.


As for turbo and super charged stuff. Well I don't really know enough about that stuff. To stop silly hp and unnecessary deaths! F5 capacity rules apply to turbos and supercharged bikes. And yes NOS in forbiden before you ask. fuel appendix blah blah blah.

[kel]

"THE SPORT" as in motorcycle racing. Not fucking about in your shed. I think the best change that should be submitted is open mods and capacity restricted.

troll ....

[jasonu]

Ok ok. I will bite. Tell me how the above hurts the sport? Explain to me how this really hurts the sport. "THE SPORT" as in motorcycle racing. Not fucking about in your shed. I think the best change that should be submitted is open mods and capacity restricted. I think they might get submitted this year. F4. Water cooled 2 strokes 104cc and under. Air cooled 2 strokes 126cc and under. Water cooled 4 valve 4 strokes 152cc and under. Air cooled 4 strokes 170cc and under. Air cool 2 valve 4 strokes 192cc and under. F5 52cc open 2 strokes 104cc open 4 strokes.


Fuck yeah. Lets do it. Who's with me?

104cc 2 strove vs 192cc 4 stroke... not sure about that.

[TZ350]

Turners should be happy. And racers probably don't give a fuck. There could be more bums on seats and growth for Motorcycle road racing in NZ.

I like ideas where it is win - win - win for everyone. Because it is great for growth.

[richban]

I like ideas where it is win - win - win for everyone. Because it is great for growth.

Yeah Me 2. Anyway My last post for a while. No I won't submit this rule! Maybe someone will. Have fun.

[TZ350]

Bert where are you ........

[Sketchy_Racer]

Ok ok. I will bite. Tell me how the above hurts the sport? Explain to me how this really hurts the sport. "THE SPORT" as in motorcycle racing. Not fucking about in your shed. I think the best change that should be submitted is open mods and capacity restricted. I think they might get submitted this year. F4. Water cooled 2 strokes 104cc and under. Air cooled 2 strokes 126cc and under. Water cooled 4 valve 4 strokes 152cc and under. Air cooled 4 strokes 170cc and under. Air cool 2 valve 4 strokes 192cc and under. F5 52cc open 2 strokes 104cc open 4 strokes.


Fuck yeah. Lets do it. Who's with me?

Best concept yet. How simple is that to police.

Leaves the tinkerers to carry on making cool shit but gets rid of all bollocks ambiguous rules.

Just remember rules are bad, the more rules you have the more bullshit there is and the less likely people can be arsed dealing with the shit and will just not bother.

[TZ350]

If it can be fleshed out a bit and if enough people are enthusiastic about it we should put it to MNZ.

[seymour14]

Ok ok. I will bite. Tell me how the above hurts the sport? Explain to me how this really hurts the sport. "THE SPORT" as in motorcycle racing. Not fucking about in your shed. I think the best change that should be submitted is open mods and capacity restricted. I think they might get submitted this year. F4. Water cooled 2 strokes 104cc and under. Air cooled 2 strokes 126cc and under. Water cooled 4 valve 4 strokes 152cc and under. Air cooled 4 strokes 170cc and under. Air cool 2 valve 4 strokes 192cc and under. F5 52cc open 2 strokes 104cc open 4 strokes.


Fuck yeah. Lets do it. Who's with me?

I like that to, especially if water cooled two strokes are put back that little bit, they already have the best chance of any of the bikes, we opened a massive incentive by going up to 110cc.

Those capacities look workable, and keeping the other crap about modifications out of the way just makes it easier to police.

Simple is usually best...

[speedpro]

Makes me laugh. All this chatter about changing the rules to make different configuration bikes competitive, and, I'll call it "axe grinding", about certain bikes with European sourced engines and also how watercooled 2Ts have such an advantage. The European engine bike makes a whopping 24hp, less than a few others at Mt Wgtn at the moment, and gives nearly everybody a good ass-whooping. The lap record, again at Mt Wgtn, has recently been held by the aforementioned bike or an Aprilia chassis with an MB100 aircooled engine making a huge 22hp. Okay, both are 2Ts, but the FXR brigade is not far behind and there are a couple of extremely fast 125cc 2Ts as well. The lap records are held by the fastest riders who could probably go even faster on a more powerful bike. Lap records must surely be a good measure of where things are at performance wise and they are saying the rider is of more significance.
We also have a European engine 50cc 2T bike doing 30s, or less, can't remember. On top of that we now have Gary on the John Connor Honda XL100 also in the 30s. You couldn't get 2 much more different bikes and yet it will be only them and Tim, if he turns up, battling at the front of F5. Funny thing is both those F5 bikes would be competitive in F4, not because of the bike/engine but because of the riders.

Personally I think there is some worthwhile tinkering to be done with the 4T capacity limits/how many valves/cooling scheme. I wonder what bikes the suggested changes would allow and who would be in a position to make them competitive.

Otherwise, if it isn't broken, and I'm convinced it isn't, then don't fix it.

Just because someone chooses to go down a different path to you doesn't mean the rules need to be changed to make your path the only one to be taken.

[chrisc]

Agreed ^

The problem with people pointing at other peoples bikes and saying "see it's faster, it has an advantage because of X" is that there is such a large spread of rider weight, skill etc. I don't think the rules are causing the problem here at all, regardless of how I feel about how they match up technically.

I personally think that Nathaniel would have the exactly the same effect riding any of the other pointy end A grade bikes. He's light, done a million laps of Mt Welly, and a very skilled consistent as hell rider. Rod's bike probably falls into a similar category. He's currently doing 30s Mt Welly laps. Which isn't far off what Gary did on his bloody 100cc 4 stroke F5 bike! You still have to ride what ever you build. It helps Rod also weighs as much as a t-shirt.

I'm unsure if the so called 'arms race' is real or just standard Kiwibiker talk, or just perceived as being a real thing because of a 110cc rule change. Bleh