The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

[Paul in NZ]

More ultra left fake news right here in New Zealand - even on KB would you believe!

What you saying? Nothing fake at all. Conservative Republicans don't think the option presented went far enough so they are refusing to support it. Trumps blaming them in his tweets and moaning he couldn't get any Dems to vote for it (as if) but he supposedly has a majority so could pass anything right? Um - nope... The conservative Republicans don't think hes gone far enough hence they wont support it yet he knows if he goes that far - the more liberal Republicans wont support that... The great deal maker?? LOL

Read here - http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/america...-on-healthcare

Freedom Caucus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Caucus


Club For Growth and Heritage

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_for_Growth


This is all for real John... The Republicans have major issues with the ultra right and are no closer to solving the rift.

[pritch]

I just posted on Twitter about so much suffering in the US being caused for purely idealogical reasons. My iPad is currently going crazy because of the numbers liking the message.

I absolutely agree with Pauls comments but there was also a Republican faction worried that if their constituents lost their insurance that would come back and bite them on the arse. Trump talked about the bill likely losing by a very narrow margin. The figure I saw was nearer 40. Not narrow, not close.

The heroin epidemic in the States is huge and it's caused initially by doctors handing out opiate pain killers in bulk because they know that the patient will not be able to afford to get treatment, and they know they won't be back for another script.

The highest death toll from heroin overdoses is in West Virginia where they voted for Trump. Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas.

[Ocean1]

The Republicans have major issues with the ultra right and are no closer to solving the rift.

Maybe there's a lesson to be taken here, in how ineffective a govt can be where it's comprised of such a huge number of single issue entities able to cheerfully block any legislation not aligning perfectly with their ideology.

Give me a single FPP elected entity every time.

[Banditbandit]

Maybe there's a lesson to be taken here, in how ineffective a govt can be where it's comprised of such a huge number of single issue entities able to cheerfully block any legislation not aligning perfectly with their ideology.

Give me a single FPP elected entity every time.

Yeah .. that figures .. you want an authoritarian regime

[pete376403]

Looks like Trump wants to set up a dynasty like north Korea - daughter Ivanka and son in lay Kushner being moved into political roles http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/...cid=spartanntp

[Ocean1]

Yeah .. that figures .. you want an authoritarian regime

I want a government capable of the job they were elected to do, rather than one nobody voted for, constrained by compromises demanded by a minority.

[pritch]

Give me a single FPP elected entity every time.

Nah fuck that. Wasn't even close to democratic. It was OK if say you lived in Fendalton, Karori, or on a farm and wanted to vote National. Or say Sydenham if you wanted to vote Labour.

We get the odd idiot now it's true, but that's a small price to pay for democracy.

[Brian d marge]

I want a government capable of the job they were elected to do, rather than one nobody voted for, constrained by compromises demanded by a minority.

Agreed
But what is this job they were elected to do?
Surely the free market is a better option?

sent for a divine source

[oldrider]

Apparently whoever sucks hardest and longest wins the required approval - make it this way or it's the highway! America first - just after Israel.

[TheDemonLord]

I want a government capable of the job they were elected to do, rather than one nobody voted for, constrained by compromises demanded by a minority.

It's an interesting Dilema.

One which I don't think either system solves adequately.

If only we could have benevolent dictators....

[Ocean1]

Nah fuck that. Wasn't even close to democratic. It was OK if say you lived in Fendalton, Karori, or on a farm and wanted to vote National. Or say Sydenham if you wanted to vote Labour.

We get the odd idiot now it's true, but that's a small price to pay for democracy.

It was as close as it's possible to get to true representative government. As I said, MMP usually gives you a government nobody voted for.

True democracy might be got by having every citizen vote on every broad policy objective. But you know damned well how that works: everyone wants everything, now, and they want someone else to pay for it.

So like I said, a vote on an internally cohesive policy set is as close to a workable democracy you'll get.

[Ocean1]

It's an interesting Dilema.

One which I don't think either system solves adequately.

If only we could have benevolent dictators....

Aye. But not too benevolent, you have to keep all the whining ingrates in line.

[Katman]

Apparently whoever sucks hardest and longest wins the required approval - make it this way or it's the highway! America first - just after Israel.

That motherfucker is scarier than Donald Trump.

[Banditbandit]

It was as close as it's possible to get to true representative government. As I said, MMP usually gives you a government nobody voted for.

Have you looked at voting history over the last say 30 years? How often did any Government in this country gain more than 50% of the total vote?

in 1972 Labour got 48.4% of the total
In 1975 national got 47.6%
In 1978 national got 39.8% Labour got 40.04 - National Governed
In 1981 National got 38.8% Labour got 39% (The Nats Governed - Muldoon)
In 1984 Labour got 42.98%
1987 Labour got 47.9%
In 1990 National got 47.82
1993 National got 35.05%
In 1997 National got 33.87% - Bolger got to run the place - this was the first election under MMP.

Given that there is low turn out - never 100% of voters, you cannot claim in any shape or form, that from 1972 to 1993 ANY Government had majority support of the voters.

So tell me again about how we had a representative democracy under FFP.

[Woodman]

Are those figures the percentage of the total of eligible voters or the percentage of people who actually voted?