The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

[Katman]

This from a report on the genocide commissioned by the Organisation of African Unity.......

12.35. In the spring of 1993, soon after Bill Clinton was inaugurated,
“each foreign policy region within the Pentagon [was] asked todevelop
lists of what we thought would be serious crises this Administration
might face.” According to James Woods,who had been Deputy Assistant
Secretary for African Affairs since 1986, “I put Rwanda-Burundi on the
list. I won't go into personalities, but I received guidance from higher
authorities. ‘Look, if something happens in Rwanda-Burundi, we don't
care. Take it off the list. US national interest is not involved and we
can't put all these silly humanitarian issues on lists, like important
problems like the Middle East, North Korea, and so on. Just make it go
away.’ And it was pretty clear to me, given the fiasco of the end of our
involvement with Somalia [a few months later], that we probably wouldn't
react [to Rwanda].”[57] American policy under Clinton remained
essentially as it had been before Clinton: a modest interest in
encouraging conventional reforms – the Arusha process, democratization
and “liberal” economic reforms – but little interest in human rights,
ethnic cleavages, or massacres.[58]

[jasonu]

Do you really think 500 men were sufficient to maintain peace?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Outcomes
These cunts sorted out shit until the United Nations said they weren't allowed to.

[husaberg]

Do you really think 500 men were sufficient to maintain peace?

Odd considering just having non armed troops was your first go to fail as being enough to stop it yet noe the number of armed ones were not enough
There was 2500 armed UN peace keepers that based on the drivel you spouted that you clearly never even heard of epic
The katspam fails just keep on going

[pritch]

Trumps acceding to Erdogan's demand is concerning. Apparently the US presence in Syria has mainly involved special forces soldiers supporting the Kurds. Earlier in proceedings the Kurds were the only people reliably beating ISIS/DAESH. The Americans joined forces with, and supported the Kurds, with good results. They now control a large chunk of Syria. Although the US contribution is relatively small, this is apparently regarded as one of the more successful US military interventions.

In recent centuries the Kurds have been forced into a hilly area sometimes referred to as Kurdistan. Not unnaturally they would like this area to be a politically independent Kurdish state. Problematically their area of hills extends in to several different countries: Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and there is a small area in Armenia. Unsurprisingly the countries involved don't feel obliged to give the Kurds the land they need. Turkey and Iraq have both waged war on the Kurds. Hussein was gassing Kurdish villages and Turkey most recently started bombing the Kurds while they were still fighting DAESH. With 'allies' like that who needs enemies?

The Turks regard the Kurds as terrorists. Nobody else does, but the Turks do. The deal was that the Kurds would fight DAESH with US support and in turn the US would use their influence to protect the Kurds from the Turks. The fear is that when the US break their word and withdraw the Turks will launch a genocide against the Kurds. There are already video clips claiming to show large convoys of Turkish tanks heading to the border.

There is an added complication. The Kurds are holding thousands of former DAESH fighters prisoner. If the Turks attack the Kurds the latter might lose control of those prisoners, some of them foreign fighters, potentially putting them back into action anywhere in the world.

Of course it's quite possible that if you read this far you now know more about the situation than Trump does.

Note for Katman: I've read two books written by Syrians during the war, one located in Raqqa (DAESH territory), one located in Aleppo (rebel territory). Neither made mention of any collateral damage caused by Americans.

[Katman]

There was 2500 armed UN peace keepers that based on the drivel you spouted that you clearly never even heard of epic
The katspam fails just keep on going

The Rwandan genocide took place from the beginning of April 1994 till mid July.

On April 21 the UN Security Council decided to reduce the peace keeping force from 2500 to 270.

The officer commanding the mission managed to keep the number at about 500.

[husaberg]

The Rwandan genocide took place from the beginning of April 1994 till mid July.

On April 21 the UN Security Council decided to reduce the peace keeping force from 2500 to 270.

The officer commanding the mission managed to keep the number at about 500.

You are a slow learner not surprising considering you didn't even kow there were armed UN troops in Rwanda

In October 1993, the Security Council, by its resolution 872 (1993), established another international force, the United Nations Assistance Mission for Rwanda (UNAMIR), to help the parties implement the agreement, monitor its implementation and support the transitional Government. UNAMIR's demilitarized zone sector headquarters was established upon the arrival of the advance party and became operational on 1 November 1993, when the NMOG II elements were absorbed into UNAMIR. Deployment of the UNAMIR battalion in Kigali, composed of contingents from Belgium and Bangladesh, was completed in the first part of December 1993, and the Kigali weapons-secure area was established on 24 December.
The United Nations solicited troop contributions, but initially only Belgium with a half a battalion of 400 troops, and Bangladesh with a logistical element of 400 troops, offered personnel. It took five months to reach the authorized strength of 2,548. But because of many unresolved issues between the parties, implementation of the agreement was delayed. Consequently, the inauguration of the transitional Government never took place.

In April 1994, the Presidents of Rwanda and of Burundi were killed while returning from peace talks in Tanzania, when the Rwandese plane crashed, in circumstances that are still to be determined, as it was landing in Kigali, Rwanda's capital. This set off a tidal wave of political and ethnic killings: the Prime Minister, cabinet ministers and UNAMIR peacekeepers were among the first victims.

The killings, targeting Tutsi and moderate Hutus, were mainly carried out by the armed forces, the presidential guard and the ruling party's youth militia, as subsequently confirmed by the Special Rapporteur on Rwanda of the United Nations Human Rights Commission. The RPF resumed its advance from the north and the east of Rwanda, and government authority disintegrated.

An interim Government was formed, but failed to stop the massacres. With the RPF's southward push, the number of displaced persons and refugees increased tremendously. On 28 April alone, 280,000 people fled to Tanzania to escape the violence. Another wave of refugees went to Zaire. The United Nations and other agencies provided emergency assistance on an unprecedented scale.

UNAMIR sought to arrange a ceasefire, without success, and its personnel came increasingly under attack. After some countries unilaterally withdrew their contingents, the Security Council, by its resolution 912 (1994) of 21 April 1994, reduced UNAMIR's strength from 2,548 to 270. Despite its reduced presence, UNAMIR troops managed to protect thousands of Rwandese who took shelter at sites under UNAMIR control.

As you see when the Genocide started there were 2500 UN troops in Rwanda not 500 or Zero as you initially claimed
in fact on the 12 April thery were 3000 UN troups in Rwanda
The UN troops were forced to withraw after they started getting targeted.
The found it hard to defend themselves given the rules of engagement that had to follow.
But seeing as you claimed not even armed troups were needed to stop the genocide its pretty irrelevant really
Rwanda Genocide Timeline

July 8, 1993 RTLM (Radio Télévison des Milles Collines) begins broadcasting and spreading hate.

Just like Katspam and oldie do

August 3, 1993 The Arusha Accords are agreed upon, opening government positions to both Hutu and Tutsi.

April 6, 1994 Rwandan President Juvénal Habyarimana is killed when his plane is shot out of the sky. This is the official beginning of the Rwandan Genocide.

April 7, 1994 Hutu extremists begin killing their political opponents, including the prime minister.

April 9, 1994 Massacre at Gikondo - hundreds of Tutsis are killed in the Pallottine Missionary Catholic Church. Since the killers were clearly targeting only Tutsi, the Gikondo massacre was the first clear sign that a genocide was occurring.

April 15-16, 1994 Massacre at the Nyarubuye Roman Catholic Church - thousands of Tutsi are killed, first by grenades and guns and then by machetes and clubs.

April 18, 1994 The Kibuye Massacres. An estimated 12,000 Tutsis are killed after sheltering at the Gatwaro stadium in Gitesi. Another 50,000 are killed in the hills of Bisesero. More are killed in the town's hospital and church.

April 28-29 Approximately 250,000 people, mostly Tutsi, flee to neighboring Tanzania.

The US sends Troops in: WarMongers! Imperialists! Bloodthirsty! Military Industrial Complex!
The US withdraws Troops: Irrational! Unhinged! Fools! Delusional!

out of Katspams quote he posted guess what he forgot to remove this bit.

And it was pretty clear to me, given the fiasco of the end of our
involvement with Somalia [a few months later], that we probably wouldn't
react [to Rwanda].

[Katman]

out of Katspams quote he posted guess what he forgot to remove this bit.

Why would I have bothered to remove it?

[husaberg]

Why would I have bothered to remove it?

True looking like a hypocrite never worried you previously.
Nor would it cross you mind that it was exactly the point TDL made that you attempted to refute with a series of ill conceived rambling that are contradictory and show your total lack of knowledge.

[Katman]

.....or Zero as you initially claimed

Really?

Care to point out where?

[husaberg]

Really?

Care to point out where?

Its plainly obvious you never even knew there were armed UN troops in Rwanda.
Otherwise you would have shut your gob about how having peace keeping troops they would have prevent the genocide.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1131119516
Nor would you have when you finally twigged that there was got it wrong about how many were there when the genocide started.
Nor would you have clain TDL point of being damned if they did or damned if they didn't was incorrect.
I realise you are not feigning ignorance, its your natural position.
I always find it funny you act with contempt claiming people must provide you with answers when you yourself refuse to answer questions and edit out what you reply to in the first place

Whats even more funny is your total acceptance that the genocide took place given to complete denial regarding the holocaust.

[Katman]

Its plainly obvious you never even knew there were armed UN troops in Rwanda.
Otherwise you would have shut your gob about how having peace keeping troopsd there would have prevent the genocide.
Nor would you have whenyou finally twigged that there was got it wrong about how many were there when the genocide started.
I realise you are not feigning ignorance, its your natural position.
I always find it funny you act with contempt claiming people must provide you with answers when you yourself refuse to answer questions and edit out what you reply to in the first place

Considerably more peace keepers than were committed would have made a considerable difference to the outcome.

Considerably more diplomatic pressure from the international community would have made a considerable difference too.

[Katman]

Whats even more funny is your total acceptance that the genocide took place given to complete denial regarding the holocaust.

My complete denial?

Care to point out where?

[husaberg]

Considerably more peace keepers than were committed would have made a considerable difference to the outcome.

Considerably more diplomatic pressure from the international community would have made a considerable difference too.

Yet you claimed armed troops would not have been needed at all.

That observation comes with a number of presuppositions.

Namely that it was right for the US to have a Military intervention and that by not doing so, they were in the wrong.

In which case, you prove my critique.

You can't make an observation that it was wrong for the US to not send troops in, if you think the US shouldn't have sent in troops.

Who said anything about troops?

Exactly how much more political pressure can the UN apply to a country in a Civil war then than what they did?

[Katman]

Yet you claimed armed troops would not have been needed at all.

Really?

Care to point out where?

You seem to spend a lot of time claiming I've said things that you can't provide any sort of proof of.

I see a pattern forming.

[husaberg]

My complete denial?

Care to point out where?

So you are prepared to admit that millions of Jews, Gypsies and Slavs as well as Dwarfs and the handicaped and were methodically systematically killed in concentration camps in gas chambers and worked and staved to death under the orders of top German hierarchy then. Beacause that was the Holocaust

Really?

Care to point out where?

You seem to spend a lot of time claiming I've said things that you can't provide any sort of proof of.

I see a pattern forming.

I already did. you feigning ignorance only shows you ignorant to what you write
I am sure you see a lot of patterns that don't exist that's what makes you a conspiracy theorist. The pattern is you are wrong pages ago yet you still troll on.......