The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

[TheDemonLord]

I wonder how many people will take up a Gentlemans bet that Trump will win the 2020 elections?

No need for Money or goods or services to be transferred, just bragging rights.

[Viking01]

I wonder how many people will take up a Gentlemans bet that Trump will win the 2020 elections?

No need for Money or goods or services to be transferred, just bragging rights.

Is the "opposition team" actually trying to compete and win ? Or are they simply trying to provide some pretense of competition ? ... 8-)

[jasonu]

I wonder how many people will take up a Gentlemans bet that Trump will win the 2020 elections?

No need for Money or goods or services to be transferred, just bragging rights.

I'll take that bet.
I'd vote Democrat if they were smart enough to put up a decent candidate but they have chosen Dopey Joe Biden.
He isn't much better than the old cunt they ran last time.

[Laava]

Yep dopey old cunts all round! Pretty good indication of how seppo politics work really.

[husaberg]

well worth a watch

[Viking01]

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/co...trump-timeline

[jasonu]

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/co...trump-timeline

Most of which you will never hear about in mainstream media.

[sugilite:Me]

It is pretty sad seeing the slowly accelerating demise of this once great Republic. They have gone from a country that in 1944 was able to manufacture a staggering 270 war based aircraft each and every day to these days struggling to produce a bunch of respirators and PPE equipment to save their own people.
From what I can make out this decline has been the responsibility of both political camps.

I can see no way out for them from this whirlpool of degradation. Trump, Barr, McConnell for sure have their foot firmly on the accelerator in the race to the bottom. Trumps teams idea of draining the swamp was to simply dig a big hole next to swamp 1.0, and drain it into said hole to make swamp 2.0, definitely just as murky, and maybe even more so.

The Dems if they are "lucky" enough to get back in will have been taking note of just how much chocolate coated shit the American people are willing to eat, and how effective ruling through division and hate can be. So they won't be backing off that. Trump has set many a dangerous precedent that the Dems will only be to happy to continue, exploit and expand upon in the name of self service to themselves.

Another other thing is, in my opinion - Trump will absolutely do his utmost best to start a civil war in an attempt to hold onto power should he lose this year. His handling of the corona virus shows he gives not give one flying fuck about the peoples lives he is charged with protecting.

I don't see any light at the end of the USA tunnel, and I sincerely, truly wish that I could. The USA have literally saved our (New Zealands) bacon in the past, along with many other countries. Sure they have also interfered recklessly and illegally in many other countries affairs - all part of the degradation. But my family and I, can very well owe the freedom we enjoy today to the USA, and that just makes me more sad that the USA finds itself in the position it is today - with seemingly no way back to greatness.

[TheDemonLord]

Another other thing is, in my opinion - Trump will absolutely do his utmost best to start a civil war in an attempt to hold onto power should he lose this year.

They said that at the last election, they were wrong then, I see no reason why that statement will be right this time round.

However, to talk about his Handling of the Coronavirus:

Trump: We will make Federal policy!
The Media: SEE TRUMP IS A FASCIST DICTATOR!!!!!

Trump: Okay, the States can set their own policy!
The Media: WHY IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NOT DOING ANYTHING, PEOPLE ARE DYYYYYYYYYING!!!!!


The real question will be in 6 months to a year of the Coronavirus pandemic - then we will see what damage, both in terms of Economic and Human damage has been done by the various responses. The NZ Media has been keeping ominously quiet about the spike in Domestic Violence, and I predict that the economic damage will lead to a rise in the suicide rate - all of which will be swept under the rug, so as not to tarnish the image of Saint Jacinda the unquestionable..


I should add to the above - it's not to say that Trump has handled the Coronavirus outbreak particularly well, although I do like his refusal to bend the knee to China and to call a Spade a Spade.

[sugilite:Me]

They said that at the last election, they were wrong then, I see no reason why that statement will be right this time round.

Seriously? Trump won in 2016, so how was that ever tested? And furthermore he has had 4 more years of wholesale manipulation of his bases insecurities to exploit - I expect better from you Mr Demonlord

However, to talk about his Handling of the Coronavirus:

Trump: We will make Federal policy!
The Media: SEE TRUMP IS A FASCIST DICTATOR!!!!!

Trump: Okay, the States can set their own policy!
The Media: WHY IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NOT DOING ANYTHING, PEOPLE ARE DYYYYYYYYYING!!!!!

All fucking useless noise. What did he actually do? His inaction and confusion and misinformation to this day is causing mass loss of life. Not even going to bother continuing with this line of debate with you.

The real question will be in 6 months to a year of the Coronavirus pandemic - then we will see what damage, both in terms of Economic and Human damage has been done by the various responses. The NZ Media has been keeping ominously quiet about the spike in Domestic Violence, and I predict that the economic damage will lead to a rise in the suicide rate - all of which will be swept under the rug, so as not to tarnish the image of Saint Jacinda the unquestionable..

There will if course be consequences for any decision made to fight a pandemic. With 5 US sailors re-contracting the virus, Sweden's herd immunity is very possibly looking to be a waste of life. Personally I'm happy to keep the NZ borders closed until further notice, even though it seriously hurts my business - if it means people do not have to die. I like the options the NZ Government took in this instance. Your post smacks of sour grapes that a politician you don't particularly like got some kudos.

I should add to the above - it's not to say that Trump has handled the Coronavirus outbreak particularly well, although I do like his refusal to bend the knee to China and to call a Spade a Spade.

Except he was praising China to begin with, but when he needed a distraction from the absolute shit job he and his administration were doing - back flip time! The man you admire is a scum bag through and through.

[sugilite:Me]

The turd does not fall far from the sewer outlet.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americ...er-us-election

[TheDemonLord]

Seriously? Trump won in 2016, so how was that ever tested? And furthermore he has had 4 more years of wholesale manipulation of his bases insecurities to exploit - I expect better from you Mr Demonlord

I was making 2 points:

1: The people that were making those predictions now, are the same ones who made previously bad predictions (he wouldn't win the primary, the nomination, the presidency etc.).
and the more implied:
2: Impeachment, Russian Interference - exactly who hasn't accepted the results?

All fucking useless noise. What did he actually do? His inaction and confusion and misinformation to this day is causing mass loss of life. Not even going to bother continuing with this line of debate with you.

Whatever he did or didn't do, it was wrong in the eyes of the media. If he takes Federal action, he's a wannabe dictator, if he let's the individual States set their own policy (which as a quick reminder isn't unprecedented given the setup of the US), then he's ineffectual and not providing leadership.

I'm not saying what he did was right or wrong, I'm only pointing out that the attacks on him continued regardless.

There will if course be consequences for any decision made to fight a pandemic. With 5 US sailors re-contracting the virus, Sweden's herd immunity is very possibly looking to be a waste of life. Personally I'm happy to keep the NZ borders closed until further notice, even though it seriously hurts my business - if it means people do not have to die. I like the options the NZ Government took in this instance. Your post smacks of sour grapes that a politician you don't particularly like got some kudos.

Sure, I don't like Jacinda Ardern, it's not like I'm not honest on that fact. However there are 3 key points here:

1: Before the Lockdown, people who had flown into NZ from overseas were asked to self-isolate - lemme break down how monumentally stupid this was: Imagine you've flown into NZ from anywhere except Aus/The pacific islands - it's a minimum of an 8 hour flight, it's also probably the holiday of a Life Time, you've likely booked and paid deposits on activities/things to do - when you land, you get told 'you should stay in your hotel room', ruining your trip, none of the places you intend to visit will give you a refund and you feel fine - what is the average person going to do in such a scenario? They are clearly going to get on with their Holiday. I mean - we have enough trouble getting people to not bring in fruit, Veg and Animal Products into the country at the border....

2: the "We are literally saving lives" Rhetoric - and this is a 2 parter - the first is that everyone is blowing smoke up Jacinda's Arse about how well NZ has coped - and sure, it has coped well, the question needs to be asked though was the action necessary or appropriate - and looking at other countries who have similarly coped well, it seems that what NZ did was an over-reaction. Which leads to:

3: What are the consequences of that action? Now, people love to say things like 'You can't put a price on Life' and other such pithy statements - so let's run a reductio ad absurdum of this - a single person has a super rare disease and to save their life, NZ spends it's entire tax revenue for that year on saving that persons life - afterall, what is the cost of a Life right? Except now there's no Police - Crime and Murders increase. There's no other hospital resources, so everyone else that has an accident or a disease dies etc. etc. So back to our real-life scenario - we increase the minimum wage whilst also stopping a large number of businesses from operating for 4 weeks - what are the consequences of that? Stripping working capital out of the economy, lay-offs, bankruptcies, foreclosures, suicides etc. massive government borrowing, increased Taxation to pay for it, adding even more pressure to the economy, leading to more lay-offs, etc.

So yes, action was taken and yes, it did have one of the desired effects - but it seems it was overkill when compared to other countries and the costs for the action taken are unknown and may be worse than the outbreak itself.

Except he was praising China to begin with, but when he needed a distraction from the absolute shit job he and his administration were doing - back flip time! The man you admire is a scum bag through and through.

You mean, when more information came to light about what China had done he changed his tune?!?

[pritch]

Some interesting snippets of information around. One such was a possible explanation for why Trump did nothing. Apparently the advice he received from senior advisor/son in law Kushner was that if he did anything to prepare for a pandemic the stock market might panic. Trump did not want panic in the stock market so he just indulged his magical thinking and happy thoughts.

Listened to an interesting podcast from The Washington Post yesterday referencing in part the shortage of masks for hospital staff. A factory that normally produces the masks, and has the capacity to produce millions, noticed an uptick in demand in January. They approached the Government inquiring if there was need for concern. Not hearing back they approached the government again a few days later pointing out that they had mothballed production lines which could be put back into service if required. Despite huge shortages of PPE for medical staff all over the USA the company has still not heard back from the government.

[husaberg]

Some interesting snippets of information around. One such was a possible explanation for why Trump did nothing. Apparently the advice he received from senior advisor/son in law Kushner was that if he did anything to prepare for a pandemic the stock market might panic. Trump did not want panic in the stock market so he just indulged his magical thinking and happy thoughts.

Listened to an interesting podcast from The Washington Post yesterday referencing in part the shortage of masks for hospital staff. A factory that normally produces the masks, and has the capacity to produce millions, noticed an uptick in demand in January. They approached the Government inquiring if there was need for concern. Not hearing back they approached the government again a few days later pointing out that they had mothballed production lines which could be put back into service if required. Despite huge shortages of PPE for medical staff all over the USA the company has still not heard back from the government.

the excuses fail when trump in his own words betray the latest attempt to spin off.......


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...27356314869761

read the comments

[sugilite:Me]

I was making 2 points:

1: The people that were making those predictions now, are the same ones who made previously bad predictions (he wouldn't win the primary, the nomination, the presidency etc.).
and the more implied:
2: Impeachment, Russian Interference - exactly who hasn't accepted the results?

Trump "Free Michigan, they are coming for your guns and second amendment rights"
As they say, where there is smoke there is fire, this was full on flames. Your points are weak in the wake of that bullshit direct from Trump.
And the text you quoted me on has nothing to do with the Russian investigation or who has not accepted what. (Another other thing is, in my opinion - Trump will absolutely do his utmost best to start a civil war in an attempt to hold onto power should he lose this year.) Par of the course for you.

Whatever he did or didn't do, it was wrong in the eyes of the media. If he takes Federal action, he's a wannabe dictator, if he let's the individual States set their own policy (which as a quick reminder isn't unprecedented given the setup of the US), then he's ineffectual and not providing leadership.
I'm not saying what he did was right or wrong, I'm only pointing out that the attacks on him continued regardless.

Just like the right wing press did to Obama before him. Will I find quotes from you in Kiwibikers past complaining that Obama got the same such treatment? I'm betting 100% not. As mentioned what the media say is pointless noise, get over it. What is important is what actions these polis take, and the action or lack thereof that Trump took both fucked the economy and killed thousands. Your arguments look more and more out of touch with reality, because the man you are defending is getting further and further from sanity. I know you like a good argument as you have stated, but I'm beginning to feel it is absolutely pointless to engage you in discussion - as it is all bullshit DYPAAC.

Sure, I don't like Jacinda Ardern, it's not like I'm not honest on that fact. However there are 3 key points here:

1: Before the Lockdown, people who had flown into NZ from overseas were asked to self-isolate - lemme break down how monumentally stupid this was: Imagine you've flown into NZ from anywhere except Aus/The pacific islands - it's a minimum of an 8 hour flight, it's also probably the holiday of a Life Time, you've likely booked and paid deposits on activities/things to do - when you land, you get told 'you should stay in your hotel room', ruining your trip, none of the places you intend to visit will give you a refund and you feel fine - what is the average person going to do in such a scenario? They are clearly going to get on with their Holiday. I mean - we have enough trouble getting people to not bring in fruit, Veg and Animal Products into the country at the border....

Finally some common ground. Yes, self isolating was a stupid idea, it was never going to happen. But the Government made up for it after that and got it right. But due to social distancing requirements, I'm stepping away from this rare common ground and will punt your other points into swamp 2.0 where in my opinion they belong.

2: the "We are literally saving lives" Rhetoric - and this is a 2 parter - the first is that everyone is blowing smoke up Jacinda's Arse about how well NZ has coped - and sure, it has coped well, the question needs to be asked though was the action necessary or appropriate - and looking at other countries who have similarly coped well, it seems that what NZ did was an over-reaction. Which leads to:

You do not mention what countries exactly, but many that had success before with their first measures are now experiencing a much more serious second wave. They did not go hard enough or keep their foot on the peddle long enough. I pray we have not made the same mistake. Time will tell. I'm cautiously optimistic. Over reaction? hardly.

3: What are the consequences of that action?

In New Zealands case, multiple zero case days.

so let's run a reductio ad absurdum

No lets not.

So yes, action was taken and yes, it did have one of the desired effects - but it seems it was overkill when compared to other countries and the costs for the action taken are unknown and may be worse than the outbreak itself.

I don't think so, and yeah, as mentioned a large number of those countries are experiencing the start of a second wave. I'm not sure Aussie have got away with it yet either.

You mean, when more information came to light about what China had done he changed his tune?!?

You mean if perhaps Trump actually took the time to read briefings? If he had, he would of realized earlier that there was the smell of a dead rat coming from the stats released by China.
But he does not read such things does he? As he admits - the stable genius goes on his gut feeling, and his gut is busy killing thousands as a result.
He was never qualified to take the position of President in good times, yet alone bad. Now the voters are reaping what they voted for. And just before you jump on the keyboard, I best head you off at the pass - in no way is my comment to be construed as to what Hillary might have done or not done as President, I simply don't care, because she lost, so no point speculating eh. (Though I have the faintest feeling she would of read the briefings eh