The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

[Bonez]

That's me'll told.

Thats was exactly what I was referring to Mosgiel Moron. A meaningless post.

Enjoy the rest of the afternoon.

All the best.

Bones

[pritch]

Mods,

Is it just possible that Cassina has returned using a false log on?

[sugilite:Me]

Well this comes down to a matter of perspective - does replacing or repairing existing sections of wall count as work done? 275 vs 6 quoted by Pritch - it seems that there is a rather large degree of shall we say 'interpretation' based on whichever side of the Fence (hehe) you fall on.

In regards to the Saw - I think that's a bit of a red herring - any security system (IT, Physical etc.) is always going to be breached by someone sufficiently dedicated, skilled and with enough time. It's about deterring the majority and making it sufficiently time-consuming that the attempt can be interdicted.

Considering how long the border is, and what he promised - what has been actually achieved in the last 4 years is pitiful.
Red herring - really? Considering Trump says the wall is to stop the bad hombres, human traffickers, and illegal immigrants - I'm quite sure the price of a saw is not going to put them off one little bit considering the scale of what they are attempting in the first place. It will hardly deter the minority, yet alone the majority. Sorry mate, but it is a total fail for Trump.

But we don't know the context of the Conversation, given the Media's rather 'judicious' editing of clips, I hold no weight to it - and I'll give an example - I've spoken about my family members like that when they have deserved it and I've been spoken about like that myself when I've been an asshat - doesn't mean that this is what I or my Family members think about each other on the whole.

I didn't specifically mean Jealousy when I said rivalry, but whilst a Federal Judge is noteworthy, it's not the PotUS is it....

She is very specific, he cannot be trusted, and is totally the wrong person for the job. It is hardly the who let out a sneaky fart at the family dinner table type statement you are making it out to be. It is a direct statement on his lack of fitness for the job.

I wasn't, I was referring to Antifa, BLM etc. who explicitly state that they want to tear down the western capitalist patriarchal structures (which is the US), and since you mentioned the Squad - they entirely support the likes of BLM. To answer the question of Quotes.

When BLM are advocating for expropriation and left-wing news outlets are not merely condoning it but actually justifying it In Defense of Destroying Property and the likes of AOC cannot bring themselves to publicly denounce it, that's all the quote I need. Anyone who doesn't immediately say 'No, Expropriation is wrong' is already damned in my eyes.

The foundation of America is individual liberalism "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness", anyone who does not uphold that core value is opposed to the very essence of what America is, and by failing to take a definitive stance against Rioting, destruction of property, Murder etc. whilst supporting organisations that explicitly state they want to tear everything that America is down - yeah, I take that hatred for America.

It is a bit rich you mentioning AOC and ilk not condemning it, when clearly it is another free pass for Trump when doing the exact same thing over and over again. Shout outs to pedos, great people on both sides in Charlottesville, and on and on. Not to mention Trump is sidestepping/dismantling the constitution at every point he can get away with.

From the get-go everything about the Russian interference screamed 'sore loser syndrome' and the biggest smoking gun for me was the lack of a smoking gun, despite repeated claims by CNN and their Ilk that "This time, we have what will be the final nail in this presidency" - I'm happy to admit that at this point they've cried Wolf so many times that I'm forgoing the usual skeptic burden of proof and dismissing every sensationalist claim from the outset.

Should a sufficiently sound piece of evidence be presented, I'll entertain it, but thus far, nothing even remotely close has been forthcoming.

I invite you to watch the first 5 minutes of Robert Muellers blurb at the start of his grilling by congress. The man never took the dems bait and would not play their games (proving he is no Dem puppet), however, what he said in the first few minutes is incredibly damming that there absolutely was and is ongoing Russian interference. Furthermore, why would Trump go to extreme lengths to obstruct if there was nothing to hide?

Okay, I'm going to take this comment in 2 parts:

Firstly - Let's both assume our equal distrust of politicians and that we both expect that any politician will fail to live up to the promises made and that we will be equally disappointed with the result - That's still a policy set, even if partially/half-arsedly implemented that I think we could both agree isn't too bad, whereas compared to other parties there are Policy items that I am vehemently against. What I'm getting at here is based on Policy alone, someone like you could vote for a candidate that espoused those Policies.

Sure, I'm pretty sure we would both consider not pissing on a poly if they were on fire. Trump is not a politician. He is worse. He is a reality tv host running the presidency as such. He has failed at so many businesses, and now the USA is his business - a point that completely bypasses his base. He has mishandled the virus so badly that the economy is on the ropes and his ineffective leadership has ensured there is no end in sight to deaths and more financial mayhem. My business relies on the USA economy. I have remedied that as best I can by starting another revenue stream here in NZ and thankfully it is doing really, really well. Should of done it ages ago.

Next part is the Right Wing Violent groups: Which ones? I'm being very serious here - where are they? Are they taking over sections of Cities and burning them to the ground? Are they forcing Mayors to remove funding for the Police? Are they getting major corporate backing and virtue signalling? Are they thriving in the Universities and actively pushing students via certain BS courses into right-wing Extremism? Are they getting mainstream TV Coverage that runs interference for them? Are they being promoted by Mainstream Politicians, Sporting figures etc?

Literally, where are they?

OK, the KKK, Skinhead and white supremacy groups, and more for sure. I don't know there addresses, but they live in the USA.

This is where we get into the murky areas of Economic Theory - my personal view is that deregulation and tax cuts will always stimulate the economy, leading to lower unemployment and more growth, however the counter-point is also true that the Rich do get Richer, but it hides the other fact - the Poor get richer too, but at a slower rate. This is the cause of the increase in income disparity often associated with 'trickle-down' economics however this is best described thusly:

If inflation is 2% PA and the Rich person's income increases at 20% PA and the Poor person's income has only increased at 4% PA - Is this fair?

One might argue that the disparity is unfair, however the Poor person is still better off, their income has increased even when factored for Inflation. Whereas all the Jealous Marxist types only see the Rich getting richer and want to help themselves to some of that $$$.

Nope, the trickle down theory is bullshit. A lot of these corporations, banks and so on get rich of paying well below the living wage. Remember I was there for nearly 2 years and the poverty I saw there far exceeded anything I have seen here. It genuinely shocked me.

I invite you to watch the video below of my favorite USA poli Katie Porter making the point I made above in a much more succinct way....

[TheDemonLord]

Considering how long the border is, and what he promised - what has been actually achieved in the last 4 years is pitiful.
Red herring - really? Considering Trump says the wall is to stop the bad hombres, human traffickers, and illegal immigrants - I'm quite sure the price of a saw is not going to put them off one little bit considering the scale of what they are attempting in the first place. It will hardly deter the minority, yet alone the majority. Sorry mate, but it is a total fail for Trump.

But are you going to include the filibustering by the Democrats in 2018/2019, threats of Government Shutdowns etc? As for the Saw - put it this way - anyone with a decent set of Power tools could break into my Gunsafe, despite it meeting the NZ Standards. Does that mean that it isn't doing it's job or that it isn't effective at it's job?

She is very specific, he cannot be trusted, and is totally the wrong person for the job. It is hardly the who let out a sneaky fart at the family dinner table type statement you are making it out to be. It is a direct statement on his lack of fitness for the job.

Sure - but we don't know any of the context around what was asked or how the subject got there and considering it was a private conversation being recorded I put it to you that it was a setup, being asked leading questions and prompted to say something completely outrageous.

If we had the entire conversation including everything that was said leading up to it, maybe I might re-evaluate my tune.

It is a bit rich you mentioning AOC and ilk not condemning it, when clearly it is another free pass for Trump when doing the exact same thing over and over again. Shout outs to pedos, great people on both sides in Charlottesville, and on and on. Not to mention Trump is sidestepping/dismantling the constitution at every point he can get away with.

I thought his comments on Charlottesville (not the Media outrage soundbite, but what he actually said) was extremely level headed, not making a partisan statement and acknowledging both sides.

The difference however is that Trump for all his faults believes in the core principals of America - Individual liberty and Excellence, whereas AOC has stated support for Socialism and various Marxist revolutionary movements despite the wealth of history of how that turns out.

But wait! There's more! When the revolutionary Communists took over Seattle for 4 weeks - did they usher in Utopia? Did everything that the likes of AOC advocate for come to fruition? Or did it produce a Warlord and armed mercenaries who ended up murdering was it 7? 'People of Colour'.

Remember AOC has specifically supported the defunding/Abolition of the Police - and this is in the face of the evidence of what happens to Communities when the Police leave. Something which is a calling-card of the current crop of Marxist Revolutionaries.

I invite you to watch the first 5 minutes of Robert Muellers blurb at the start of his grilling by congress. The man never took the dems bait and would not play their games (proving he is no Dem puppet), however, what he said in the first few minutes is incredibly damming that there absolutely was and is ongoing Russian interference. Furthermore, why would Trump go to extreme lengths to obstruct if there was nothing to hide?

I'm 20 minutes into the below and so far all I've heard is a lot of hot air - nothing even remotely registering as proof or damning evidence - Unless that is the wrong video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFIoVAMSLX0

As for why he would go to extreme lengths: Would you co-operate with what you believed to be a blatant Government stitch-up? I certainly wouldn't - I'd obstruct with every means possible even if I'd done no wrong because to yield the protections against the Tyranny of the State, to the State whilst it's being Tyrannical is never a right.

Sure, I'm pretty sure we would both consider not pissing on a poly if they were on fire. Trump is not a politician. He is worse. He is a reality tv host running the presidency as such. He has failed at so many businesses, and now the USA is his business - a point that completely bypasses his base.

Reagan was an Actor, Wilson was a Professor, I'd go so far to say that not being a traditional politician is one of his greatest appeals.

He has mishandled the virus so badly that the economy is on the ropes and his ineffective leadership has ensured there is no end in sight to deaths and more financial mayhem. My business relies on the USA economy. I have remedied that as best I can by starting another revenue stream here in NZ and thankfully it is doing really, really well. Should of done it ages ago.

So, Here's an area where I personally DO criticize Trump, but I need to put it in perspective - I'm not a huge fan of the Federalist system, Probably because I'm British and the idea of a single authority figure, with a Government legislation that applies to everyone is the 'proper' way to Govern.

I think Trump should have set-out a Federal policy as to what should be done.

However, a lot of Americans who really like the Federalist system have stated that they really appreciate that Trump has respected State's rights to self-determine what they need and apply for Federal assistance when needed.

Suffice to say I disagree with them and this course of action has lead to unnecessary Deaths. The Federalists however simply point to each State's Governors as ultimately responsible.

But yes, On this issue, I disagree with the Federalist perspective and think Trump should have taken action.

OK, the KKK, Skinhead and white supremacy groups, and more for sure. I don't know there addresses, but they live in the USA.

Sure, they exist - but where are they? Are they out Rioting and Looting? Are they taking over sections of Cities? Are they murdering people? Given what is currently happening there is no comparison - the worst they do is walk down the street, waive a confederate flag, shout Sieg Heil, make a salute and fuck off.

Nope, the trickle down theory is bullshit. A lot of these corporations, banks and so on get rich of paying well below the living wage. Remember I was there for nearly 2 years and the poverty I saw there far exceeded anything I have seen here. It genuinely shocked me.

I invite you to watch the video below of my favorite USA poli Katie Porter making the point I made above in a much more succinct way....

If I was to point to Reagonomics and cite the general and specific increases of GDP, even adjusted for Inflation that showed the average wage earner was better off under the Reagonomics policy. Unemployment was massively down etc. Or the post Thatcher economic Boom. Or we could go the other way and back to my favourite bug-bear - the USSR, Venezuela etc.

Watching the video - It's really simple:

1: Don't have kids out of Wedlock/committed relationship
2: Don't have kids when you are on an Entry level job
3: Don't live in a state that has some of the highest cost of living in the Country

Those 3 factors are not the concern of the Bank in setting it's salary - Each one of those represents a choice, made by the Individual and those choices have consequences. Run that same wage calculation but for someone fresh out of high school, late teens, early twenties, no Kids, flatting as opposed to renting an entire house by themselves - And I'd be willing to bet that the calculations look a whole lot better.

But let's be really harsh: The Government raises the minimum wage or imposes regulations or otherwise interferes - The bank deems her job is no longer economical (that is, the value that they get from the work done doesn't exceed the cost of employing her) and now she's Unemployed.

This is something you see in Small-Town NZ when a major employer pulls out, all that Money Velocity that was generated, stops and the Towns suffer for it, or for my personal favorite example: One of the main functions of Prostitutes in Frontier Towns in the Wild West era was to encourage Miners and workers to spend their money and thus generate sufficient money velocity to sustain the town.

And finally yes: In Trickle Down economics the Rich do get disproportionately Richer, but so long as everyone else is better off too, that's what we should care about.

[pritch]

Another day, another raft of Hatch Act violations by the "law and order" president, his wife, and his Secretary of State.

A rag tag bunch of armed RWNJs arrived at the protests in Kenosha, WI. They were greeted with bottles of water and thanked for their attendance by the police, who then advised these Rambo wannabe idiots, "We will push them down by you 'cause you can deal with them. Then we're gonna leave."

A seventeen year old who had travelled from out of state with his AR15, and his rubber gloves, then shot multiple protestors killing two. He was not arrested at the scene but was arrested when he got back home to Illinois.

The killer has been described as a "Boogaloo Boy" in the press but in none of the clips I've seen was he identifiable as such. More likely just some inadequate who decided to do this instead of yet another school shooting.

[Viking01]

https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...billion-richer

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...billion-richer

Literally, as if on Cue:

Whereas all the Jealous Marxist types only see the Rich getting richer and want to help themselves to some of that $$$.

[Viking01]

Literally, as if on Cue:

A rough date would do.

Is it before the election, or afterwards ?

[TheDemonLord]

A rough date would do.

Is it before the election, or afterwards ?

The source you posted, is from the Marxist perspective, espousing the talking points that I said that they would make in regards to Trickle-Down economics.

[Viking01]

The source you posted, is from the Marxist perspective, espousing the talking points that I said that they would make in regards to Trickle-Down economics.

I know where it came from. I just wanted a rough date.

[sugilite:Me]

But are you going to include the filibustering by the Democrats in 2018/2019, threats of Government Shutdowns etc? As for the Saw - put it this way - anyone with a decent set of Power tools could break into my Gunsafe, despite it meeting the NZ Standards. Does that mean that it isn't doing it's job or that it isn't effective at it's job?



Sure - but we don't know any of the context around what was asked or how the subject got there and considering it was a private conversation being recorded I put it to you that it was a setup, being asked leading questions and prompted to say something completely outrageous.

If we had the entire conversation including everything that was said leading up to it, maybe I might re-evaluate my tune.



I thought his comments on Charlottesville (not the Media outrage soundbite, but what he actually said) was extremely level headed, not making a partisan statement and acknowledging both sides.

The difference however is that Trump for all his faults believes in the core principals of America - Individual liberty and Excellence, whereas AOC has stated support for Socialism and various Marxist revolutionary movements despite the wealth of history of how that turns out.

But wait! There's more! When the revolutionary Communists took over Seattle for 4 weeks - did they usher in Utopia? Did everything that the likes of AOC advocate for come to fruition? Or did it produce a Warlord and armed mercenaries who ended up murdering was it 7? 'People of Colour'.

Remember AOC has specifically supported the defunding/Abolition of the Police - and this is in the face of the evidence of what happens to Communities when the Police leave. Something which is a calling-card of the current crop of Marxist Revolutionaries.



I'm 20 minutes into the below and so far all I've heard is a lot of hot air - nothing even remotely registering as proof or damning evidence - Unless that is the wrong video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFIoVAMSLX0

As for why he would go to extreme lengths: Would you co-operate with what you believed to be a blatant Government stitch-up? I certainly wouldn't - I'd obstruct with every means possible even if I'd done no wrong because to yield the protections against the Tyranny of the State, to the State whilst it's being Tyrannical is never a right.



Reagan was an Actor, Wilson was a Professor, I'd go so far to say that not being a traditional politician is one of his greatest appeals.



So, Here's an area where I personally DO criticize Trump, but I need to put it in perspective - I'm not a huge fan of the Federalist system, Probably because I'm British and the idea of a single authority figure, with a Government legislation that applies to everyone is the 'proper' way to Govern.

I think Trump should have set-out a Federal policy as to what should be done.

However, a lot of Americans who really like the Federalist system have stated that they really appreciate that Trump has respected State's rights to self-determine what they need and apply for Federal assistance when needed.

Suffice to say I disagree with them and this course of action has lead to unnecessary Deaths. The Federalists however simply point to each State's Governors as ultimately responsible.

But yes, On this issue, I disagree with the Federalist perspective and think Trump should have taken action.



Sure, they exist - but where are they? Are they out Rioting and Looting? Are they taking over sections of Cities? Are they murdering people? Given what is currently happening there is no comparison - the worst they do is walk down the street, waive a confederate flag, shout Sieg Heil, make a salute and fuck off.



If I was to point to Reagonomics and cite the general and specific increases of GDP, even adjusted for Inflation that showed the average wage earner was better off under the Reagonomics policy. Unemployment was massively down etc. Or the post Thatcher economic Boom. Or we could go the other way and back to my favourite bug-bear - the USSR, Venezuela etc.

Watching the video - It's really simple:

1: Don't have kids out of Wedlock/committed relationship
2: Don't have kids when you are on an Entry level job
3: Don't live in a state that has some of the highest cost of living in the Country

Those 3 factors are not the concern of the Bank in setting it's salary - Each one of those represents a choice, made by the Individual and those choices have consequences. Run that same wage calculation but for someone fresh out of high school, late teens, early twenties, no Kids, flatting as opposed to renting an entire house by themselves - And I'd be willing to bet that the calculations look a whole lot better.

But let's be really harsh: The Government raises the minimum wage or imposes regulations or otherwise interferes - The bank deems her job is no longer economical (that is, the value that they get from the work done doesn't exceed the cost of employing her) and now she's Unemployed.

This is something you see in Small-Town NZ when a major employer pulls out, all that Money Velocity that was generated, stops and the Towns suffer for it, or for my personal favorite example: One of the main functions of Prostitutes in Frontier Towns in the Wild West era was to encourage Miners and workers to spend their money and thus generate sufficient money velocity to sustain the town.

And finally yes: In Trickle Down economics the Rich do get disproportionately Richer, but so long as everyone else is better off too, that's what we should care about.

I don't have time to reply to that lot presently - but in the mean time, enjoy your guy below.

[TheDemonLord]

Another day, another raft of Hatch Act violations by the "law and order" president, his wife, and his Secretary of State.

A rag tag bunch of armed RWNJs arrived at the protests in Kenosha, WI. They were greeted with bottles of water and thanked for their attendance by the police, who then advised these Rambo wannabe idiots, "We will push them down by you 'cause you can deal with them. Then we're gonna leave."

A seventeen year old who had travelled from out of state with his AR15, and his rubber gloves, then shot multiple protestors killing two. He was not arrested at the scene but was arrested when he got back home to Illinois.

The killer has been described as a "Boogaloo Boy" in the press but in none of the clips I've seen was he identifiable as such. More likely just some inadequate who decided to do this instead of yet another school shooting.

So, if someone kicks you to the floor and draws a pistol on you, you shouldn't defend yourself?

Then, when the angry Mob, seeing you've just shot and killed someone whilst trying to defend yourself, start charging at you, you also shouldn't defend yourself?

I mean you could argue that he shouldn't have been there in the first place, but if you want to play that card, then I get to play "Neither should the rioters".

Edit: Oh and the 2 people that were Shot? A Convicted Pedophile and a Convicted Domestic Abuser - so I'm sure they were just upstanding moral citizens who were only protesting....

[pritch]

I don't have time to reply to that lot presently - but in the mean time, enjoy your guy below.

Geez don't quote TDL's stuff. Some of that is unhinged verging on diagnosable.

[TheDemonLord]

Geez don't quote TDL's stuff. Some of that is unhinged verging on diagnosable.

And yet, if it is so unhinged as to be diagnosable, it would be easily dismissed and wouldn't cause you any trouble.

The fact I get such a visceral response shows that I'm repeatedly hitting a nerve, to the point where you have to clutch your pearls and put me on an ignore list, lest you get tainted by my Heresy.

[pritch]

This is brilliant. Sadly it will likely result in a tldr response from those who most need to read it. Seriously though it is worth the time.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...davis-1038206/