The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

[pritch]

That will depend on what is presented in court when it comes to trial ... and whether Manaford takes the stand.

A trial is in progress. After the prosecution completed their part the defence moved that there was no case to answer. That didn't wash, Manafort told the judge he did not wish to take the stand, his lawyers offered no defence so the trial moves to the summing up phase.

Regardless of the outcome of this trial, there will be another in a few weeks in the District of Columbia on different charges.

[Banditbandit]

A trial is in progress. After the prosecution completed their part the defence moved that there was no case to answer. That didn't wash, Manafort told the judge he did not wish to take the stand, his lawyers offered no defence so the trial moves to the summing up phase.

Regardless of the outcome of this trial, there will be another in a few weeks in the District of Columbia on different charges.

OK - thanks. I can't be bothered following the bullshit there - apart from its amusement value.

[Viking01]

https://www.thenation.com/article/if...-the-beholder/

[jasonu]

That will depend on what is presented in court when it comes to trial ... and whether Manaford takes the stand.

The trial (apart for summing up) finished yesterday and the defense chose not to defend.

[TheDemonLord]

Something interesting to add here:



This is a Grilling between Trey Gowdy and Peter Strzok - now you can watch the whole thing if you want (I rather enjoy watching Trey interrogate people) - however the interesting part is if you skip forward to approx 13:00 - He gives a passionate defense of his Txts and claims objectivity - however, when he refers to President Trump's "Horrible and Disgusting behaviour" - his speech full of Vitriol - ask yourself this:

Are those the words of someone who is biased or someone who has maintained Objectivity?

[pritch]

Are those the words of someone who is biased or someone who has maintained Objectivity?

Which is compeletely and utterly irrelevant. All civil servants have personal opinions, and Trump does tend to provoke strong ones, but they have to keep them separate from their work. Stzrok was the top spy catcher in the FBI, and as such probably scared the shit outa Trump.

[Katman]

Which is compeletely and utterly irrelevant. All civil servants have personal opinions, and Trump does tend to provoke strong ones, but they have to keep them separate from their work. Stzrok was the top spy catcher in the FBI, and as such probably scared the shit outa Trump.

If Peter Stzrok's comments could be seen to imply personal bias (which I think they clearly do) then the exchange in that video is entirely relevant.

[TheDemonLord]

Which is compeletely and utterly irrelevant. All civil servants have personal opinions, and Trump does tend to provoke strong ones, but they have to keep them separate from their work. Stzrok was the top spy catcher in the FBI, and as such probably scared the shit outa Trump.

Personal opinions are fine - it's the amount of conviction behind those opinions that's important and whether or not we can be sure that in the macro and micro decisions made by the individual during the course of their work were made without reference to those strong, principled convictions.

He chose to refer to Trump as Horrible and Disgusting, his manner and the way he delivered the words shows the Contempt he has for the President. Now, if he referred to Hilary in the same manner (ie showing an equal level of bias towards her) I'd be fine or if he calmly stated his opinion on Trump as not being his preferred candidate, that would also be fine.

To me, he's exceeded a threshold from mere personal opinion, to something akin to Zealotry - which casts an immovable shadow of doubt over his work and conduct.

[pritch]

If Peter Stzrok's comments could be seen to imply personal bias (which I think they clearly do) then the exchange in that video is entirely relevant.

It's not. That's not how it works. Most civil servants will probably be required at some point to do things that they may strongly oppose. They either do them or quit. Simple.

[Katman]

It's not. That's not how it works.

You're entitled to your opinion - just as I'm entitled to mine.

[pritch]

You're entitled to your opinion - just as I'm entitled to mine.

I know you have trouble with new ideas, but give it a shot. It is nothing to do with opinion. That is how it works - full stop.

[Katman]

I know you have trouble with new ideas, but give it a shot. It is nothing to do with opinion. That is how it works - full stop.

Trey Gowdy doesn't seem to agree with you.

And neither do I.

[husaberg]

It's not. That's not how it works. Most civil servants will probably be required at some point to do things that they may strongly oppose. They either do them or quit. Simple.

None of anything changes the facts of the case either no mater what the Trump followers would like.

After a year-long investigation that included a review of millions of communications and interviews of scores of witnesses, the IG concluded that there is no evidence that the political views of Special Agent Strzok and others in the FBI impacted the handling of the Clinton email investigation," Strzok's attorney, Aitan Goelman, said in a statement to CNBC. "As the Report notes, Special Agent Strzok in particular was consistently thorough and aggressive, sometimes to the point that put him at odds with senior officials at the Department of Justice."
Thursday's watchdog report from the Department of Justice examined Strzok's and Page's actions and found no evidence that "political bias" tainted their work.
"We did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that improper considerations, including political bias, directly affected the specific investigative actions we reviewed," the department's inspector general, Michael Horowitz, wrote in the conclusion of his report issued Thursday.

They also of course have an FBI oath to uphold.

Every federal employee swears an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States" and "bear true faith and allegiance to the same."

Also

It’s also important to note that Mueller was prevented from considering political affiliation when putting together his team.
Both Justice Department policy and the Civil Service Reform Act "prohibit using political affiliation and may also prohibit using certain ideological affiliations in hiring and taking other personnel actions

“Every FBI agent, and Pete [Strzok] is no different, knows how to investigate and follow the facts,” a former senior official told The Hill. “It’s astonishing. There’s a lack of understanding of how we operate as an organization—one, to think that we could not have political views and conduct impartial investigations, and two, to assume with a complex investigation like this that one person could change the outcome.”

Trump is now attempting to use this as a reason to throw out the investigation into the Russian interference but as soon as the text were discovered Strzok was effectively sidelined from investigations It was a British spy that first suggested Trump might have been ensnared by Russian intelligence.

With regards to Bias Its been alledged that Trumps lawyer Rudy Giuliani, the former New York mayor, and the FBI’s New York field office, where the ones who reportedly pressed the FBI to revisit the Clinton server investigation after beginning an inquiry into Weiner’s as some of the emails from Weiners wife were sent to Clinton . its also been reported that a former New York field office chief, highly critical of the non-indictment, runs a military charity that has received significant financial donations from Trump.

Robert Mueller’s investigative team has "13 hardened Democrats, some big Crooked Hillary supporters, and Zero Republicans."
— Donald Trump on Sunday, March 18th, 2018 in a tweet

Trump tries also to make out its a Democrat conspiracy but misses out that the fact that its leader is Mueller, who is registered as a Republican in the District of Columbia.

Mueller was appointed to offices by Republican presidents Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush, as well as by Democrats Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. In addition, Mueller was appointed by Rod Rosenstein, who was nominated for deputy attorney general by Trump himself, and who previously was appointed as a U.S. Attorney by George W. Bush

[pritch]

Trey Gowdy doesn't seem to agree with you.

And neither do I.

I doubt I'd agree with Trey Gowdy on a lot but he won't be there much longer anyway. These hearings though are more about theatre than fact finding, it'd be a mistake to take them too seriously.
They can be entertaining though and I did watch some of that one live.

Strangely it bothers me not at all that you don't agree with me. If you suddenly did start agreeing with me I'd find that slightly disconcerting.

You must have a motorbike to work on, I have dishes to do, be well.

[pritch]

It was a British spy that first suggested Trump might have been ensnared by Russian intelligence.

If you will permit me to correct that. The first notification to US authorities was made by an Australian diplomat who had heard drunken boasting by a member of team Trump. That was some two months prior to the FBI receiving the Steele dossier.