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Thread: The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

  1. #6511
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    Quote Originally Posted by austingtir View Post
    Exactly Trumps got nothing to be concerned about because the dems have got nothing. They are being exposed more and more with everday that passes as complete frauds.


    BTW I posted pics on here of my bike. It just doesnt work so theres nothing much to talk about.

    + its more fun in here winding you shills up.
    The kiwibiker far right loony conspiricist club - membership base = 1 - austingtir
    Ever noticed how the other Trump defending posters don't back you up? There is a reason for that.

  2. #6512
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    I'm not entirely sure why you went down the if there was a civil war tomorrow angle - concluding at the end that none of it could be ascribed to Trump - like huh, odd?
    I was meaning if Trump is so thin skinned his ego cannot handle the rejection of an election and he digs in. And if nothing else, he has shown he is extremely egotistical and thinned skin.
    I don't know how Trump would react if he lost the Election, He's lost many a business dealing and to my knowledge has not had an epic breakdown, instead - he worked to rebuild what he lost. That behavior demonstrates, if anything, the opposite character traits that you are ascribing to him.

    But as I said, I don't know what his reaction will be.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    You mention the likes of ANTIFA, but would that not swing around to the likes of the far right extremest groups once Trump is gone? Far right leaning loonies are already responsible for a scary amount of mass shootings.
    Show me an openly Fascist University Professor.
    Because I can sure you many many many many openly Marxist/Communist University Professors.

    That is the Difference.

    Also on the Far-Right mass shootings, Some of the people who are described as being far-right, may not be as they seem. A certain recent NZ event, where the person in question praised Communist China, Espoused various Environmental talking points - not normally the patter of the 'far-right'.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    Imo, there is two different kinds of polly, the one who wants power and when they get it, use it unwisely, or to their own ends. And the other who has good intentions, but when they find out that one little fish swimming against the corrupt current cannot make a difference they either die inside, or go fuck it and join the corrupt mob.
    Heh, I agree, but there is the rare 3rd kind who still has the strength of character to be the one little fish. Rare, but they do exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    My eldest is 28, he is not interested in bringing up a family with what he sees in the future, and that goes a long way beyond climate change.
    I'm not much older than him, Assuming the typical dating preference, if he has a serious partner, she's probably either the same age or a few years younger - Give it time.

    I, too, never had any interest in children whatsoever, I had never held a Baby in my life, right up until I help my Daughter for the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    It is my opinion that Trump does not care anywhere near as much about illegal immigration as much as you give him credit for. It is just a pressure point he can push to rally voters to his side. His golfing businesses certainly have not been shy use the cheap services of illegal immigrants, and that will just be the tip of the ice berg. Nor do I feel that Trump used the "Mexico will pay for the wall" as a threat to spurn Mexico into making the changes he wants them too. Moreover, it made the policy acceptable to the gullible base that were thinking, yaaaay free wall, wahooo!
    Let's take that as wrote - that he doesn't care for Illegal Immigration, but he is aware that the populace DOES care about it and so makes it a key point - What does that say about him? That he's a Politician willing to listen to the People? His businesses - unless he's the one doing the Hiring/Firing - I don't think you can attribute the day-to-day admin tasks with him and his beliefs.

    The evidence on the threats of Tariffs against Mexico if they didn't adopt their responsibility of maintaining border security has confirmed by the Mexicans themselves. And from memory, Trump was clear before the election that one of the ways he would 'Make Mexico pay for it' was through the use of Tariffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    If you had kids and they were kicking their rugby balls over to my property, and I said "I'm going to build a wall and you are going to pay for it" and for the sake of calming Mr Cranky down, you got your kids to stop that shit. If I (aptly named Mr Crankey) Then came over and said, see I told you that you would pay for the wall (that does not exist) - I wonder how you would interpret that? I'm thinking it would not be "Dang Mt Crankey is right, I did pay for that non existent wall".
    What we would both agree on, is that the ultimate goal of stopping the ball getting kicked over was accomplished and that the financial threat was causal to that goal.

    I wouldn't say you built a wall, but I would say you fulfilled your promise to stop balls getting kicked into your yard.

    Quote Originally Posted by sugilite View Post
    OK, I agree, he has not started a new war and that is good. Possibly because one does not suit his agenda, if it were too, I have no doubt he would loose any sleep in starting one. Pure speculation at best. I'm just going on his proven inability to empathize, with his paper towel throwing to hurricane disaster survivors and the recently orphaned baby happy face photo opportunities.
    I'm not so sure he would if it suited his agenda, or perhaps more specifically - I don't think any of his Agendas would be aided by a War. The only thing I have to go on is his mercy when it came to retaliating for the Drone being shot down - accepting the loss of equipment as not justification for the loss of life, combined with a desire to see the US no longer be 'world police' (with the associated financial cost) suggests to me that he'd prefer to do Business than Combat.
    Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress

  3. #6513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    No - the only way they can unseat Trump is by impeachment - and they have not yet tried that - just starting now.
    So the Russia Hoax, the Mueller investigation etc. didn't happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    No. The accusation they are sore losers comes from Trump and his close supporters - the average Trump supporter just buys into his bullshit. He's a serial liar - has been shown to be many times .. a President who lies is an issue, no matter what party they come from.
    Okay - compare the behavior of National vs Labour in NZ to what the DNC has done. They are acting in a very similar fashion to the Remain camp in the UK - they cannot accept the result and so are trying every avenue of recourse (justified or not) to get their own way.

    That's the objective definition of a Sore Loser.

    As for his Lies, let's take your word for the moment that he does - there's a brilliant Jordan Peterson quote on this:

    "Americans concluded they liked “the unscripted, impulsive lies of Trump better than the conniving, scripted lies of Clinton.” "

    To that end, if I accept your premise, At worst Trump is akin to the guy at the Bar that says he makes more than he actually does or the salesman who overstates his product. Something which is both easily seen through and dismissed as mere bluster.

    At best however, Trump is like the Coach who tells the Team what they need to hear to become greater than they currently are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    No. The president is acting against the interests of the USA .. many examples.
    I don't think so, let's look at the examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    The negative impact he is having on the economy
    Which is a redress of issues that have been caused by every president since the 1980s by failing to reign in China - a short-term disruption for a long-term gain is not acting against the interests of the US, if anything - it could be argued that the failings of his predecessors to tackle this represents an act on their part against the interests of the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    The abandonment of allies to be exterminated by Turkey ..
    I suspect this will become a tangent in-of-itself, but what are the US foreign Interests? One of Trumps talking points is that they have been paying a price to be the world Police, a Price that is borne solely by American Tax payers. By changing their Foreign Policy, it could be argued that it is in fact within the US interest. This one however is a veritable Minefield.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    Threats to imprison political opponents for treason is a characteristic of dictatorial regimes. They do not belong in a Western democracy.
    That depends whether or not the Political opponents have acted in a Treasonous manner. Certainly, the DNC have acted in opposition to Trump specifically in ways that are far outside the normal bounds of what acceptable behavior for the Opposition party is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    His refusal to follow the law and cooperate with the investigation (if he is innocent what has he got to hide?)
    Has he been arrested for not following the Law? I missed that? As for the Nothing to Hide argument - Suffice to say, I don't buy that in any way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    I disagree - there is plenty of justification.
    The only justification is the presumption of a distribution of opinions that will exist within a voter base. In short - there will be racists, sexists, homophobes etc. that Vote for the GoP, there will also be Racists, sexists, Homophobes etc. that Vote for the DNC. Singling out around 50% of your population as someform of Moral Degenerates - Since you are the Philosopher - tell me, what is the Justification for that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    Are you meaning Trump here? (except for the last part about guns)
    I'm referring to the Media - Cases in point - Omitting when he was referring to MS13 gang members, The Border picture - that was taken under the Obama administration - I could go on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    The claimed role of the news media in a democracy is to hold politicians to account ...
    Hold to account or continually attack because they don't like?

    Those 2 things are not the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    Do you know what the 2nd Amendment actually says?

    In case - here it is ..
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    This was written at a time when the US forces, which were largely volunteer militias with a small standing army, had defeated the might of Pomlandia ... The writers recognized the need for such militia - and armed citizens were very useful to fight off external enemies ..

    This has been reinterpreted as the right to defend yourself against an oppressive government (oh - right - this was why the Black Power Movement armed themselves ..

    And again reinterpreted as the right to shoot fellow citizens you feel threatened by ..

    So - I would insist that all citizens who have guns belong to a recognized militia - and undergo regular training - so they are capable of defending the country .. Yeah - that would go down like a lead balloon wouldn't it ..

    But the US now has a very large standing army, air force and navy - Militias are no longer needed - and would probably get in the way - and get wiped out very quickly ..

    Seriously - do you think this guy would be any use at all to defend the country?

    Defend yourself against the Government? Shit - that worked well at Ruby Ridge and Waco, Texas, didn't it ..
    Now, I'm going to preface this by saying I don't agree with the Arguments I'm about to make - I, too, share certain opinions about the level of Firepower available to the US Military vs the Private Citizen, the interpretation of the 2A and other surrounding concepts.

    But.

    I'm going to argue from the perspective I've seen espoused many times by Americans and particularly those who hold the 2A in high regard. Namely because this is the group in question that would be key if there was a Civil war, so I'm making the argument from their perspective.

    First up - the definition of Militia (again I agree with your assessment personally) - this however has been defined via numerous Supreme Court judgements in the US - so regardless of what you and I think, the definition in the US, by the US, for the US is that it applies to everyone.

    Next up is that whilst the 2A represents a single Sentence, the surrounding documentation (Federalist Papers, various letters by the founding fathers etc.) make it absolutely clear that Self-Defence and the Defence against a Tyrannical Government are the reasons why the 2A exists.

    Finally, my understanding is the US Army is forbidden from acting against US Citizens on US Soil, although I think the National Guard have no such inhibition, there's also a comment that where the Armed forces be called by a President to act in contrary to the Constitution, whether or not they would comply - There's some justification that they wouldn't.

    To sum up - There's a lot to not like about Trump, but compared to other World Leaders or even other US Presidents, he has received a disproportionate amount of hatred, vitriol and negative coverage. There are many Conservative commentators (Ben Shapiro springs to mind) who refer to themselves as 'Sometimes Trump' - namely they are happy to criticise him when he does something bad, but conversely praise him when he does something good.

    As an example of this - remember when TPPA was a thing and the various professional Activists were up to their usual tricks protesting it?

    How many of them, do you think, was pleased for Trump when he struck it down? How many of them praised his decision? I didn't hear of a single one, did you?

    When Trump opted not to retaliate for the Drone shoot-down, how many of left-wing Media (that branded prior presidents as WarMongers and BabyKillers) came out in support of Trump? I can't remember a whole lot.
    Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress

  4. #6514
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    Thuis is a quick editied response .. not to everything ..

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemonLord View Post
    So the Russia Hoax, the Mueller investigation etc. didn't happen?
    Meuller was just about begging them to impeach - the dems did not .. Pelosi is an idiot too ..






    Which is a redress of issues that have been caused by every president since the 1980s by failing to reign in China - a short-term disruption for a long-term gain is not acting against the interests of the US, if anything - it could be argued that the failings of his predecessors to tackle this represents an act on their part against the interests of the US.
    I'm not sure China needfs to be reined in .. tell me why ..

    The trade deficit is because Americans buy more from China than they sell to China .. That's an issue of the consumers wanting cheap goods ..



    That depends whether or not the Political opponents have acted in a Treasonous manner. Certainly, the DNC have acted in opposition to Trump specifically in ways that are far outside the normal bounds of what acceptable behavior for the Opposition party is.
    Is that treasonaous/ DOes Pelosi really 'hate america"?


    Has he been arrested for not following the Law? I missed that? As for the Nothing to Hide argument - Suffice to say, I don't buy that in any way.
    The Justice department and other agencies cannot act against a sitting president - only Congress (House and Senate ) can do that .


    The only justification is the presumption of a distribution of opinions that will exist within a voter base. In short - there will be racists, sexists, homophobes etc. that Vote for the GoP, there will also be Racists, sexists, Homophobes etc. that Vote for the DNC. Singling out around 50% of your population as someform of Moral Degenerates - Since you are the Philosopher - tell me, what is the Justification for that?

    As the leader of a multi-cultural, liberal democracy I'd expect the leader NOT to buy into this bullshit - let alone let it flourish ..

    Of course all socieities have homophobs, racists, etc etc - do we truly want the "leader of the Free World" to buy into the bullshit and let it flourish ..
    "So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."

  5. #6515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    Thuis is a quick editied response .. not to everything ..
    Hairy Muff, I await a fuller response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    Meuller was just about begging them to impeach - the dems did not .. Pelosi is an idiot too ..
    Yes, I have my opinions about Meuller and his investigation, Although I'm surprised - we do agree on Pelosi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    I'm not sure China needfs to be reined in .. tell me why ..
    The first thing that springs to mind is:

    Chinese Companies can only have Copyright claims brought against them in Chinese courts, which will never rule against a Chinese company.
    Followed a close second behind China's Workers rights (or lack thereof)

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    The trade deficit is because Americans buy more from China than they sell to China .. That's an issue of the consumers wanting cheap goods ..
    I've got no problem with that per se, more the way that this is achieved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    Is that treasonaous/ DOes Pelosi really 'hate america"?
    Pelosi, probably not.
    However, other prominent Democrats (the Squad springs to mind) - espouse a viewpoint that is antithetical to the US founding principles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    As the leader of a multi-cultural, liberal democracy I'd expect the leader NOT to buy into this bullshit - let alone let it flourish ..

    Of course all socieities have homophobs, racists, etc etc - do we truly want the "leader of the Free World" to buy into the bullshit and let it flourish ..
    Well, look at his Victory speech - that was certainly calling for Unity.

    I don't however accept he buys into it. Nor do I accept that he lets it flourish.
    Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress

  6. #6516
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    LOL they had to tell the crowd to clap!!

    https://democrats.org/debate-live-stream/


    And not an american flag was seen!


    When the democrats have a debate and all they talk about is Trump....


    Good luck with this communist horse you chaps have backed I know where im putting my money.


    2020 is going to be glorious:

  7. #6517
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    ^^ I just had a look at the link, they are talking about policies right now. Something you will not see at a Trump rally

  8. #6518
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    This letter is reportedly genuine. It isn't of a standard that would be acceptable in most high schools, but of course that last sentence means 'disregard this letter'. He doesn't want anything to happen to the Trump Towers in Istanbul so he won't do anything much to hurt Turkey.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	EHB1IWBXUAAJI4g.png 
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    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

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    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

  10. #6520
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    All you are doing by posting this garbage is proving you are totally off your rocker.

    Its called TDS. You should really seek professional guidance.

    Im worried you might off yourself after 2020.

  11. #6521
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    Trump really is a stable Genius... Here he is dressing down the mil industrial complex and the pentagon among others.

    Most anti war president possibly ever?

    Strong presser this one!

    If there arent some people at raytheon and all over the pentagon getting their assassination plans sorted I'll be amazed!!

    from about 20min in:


  12. #6522
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    Quote Originally Posted by pritch View Post
    This letter is reportedly genuine. It isn't of a standard that would be acceptable in most high schools, .
    Was it penned by husaberk?
    Lets go Brandon

  13. #6523
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonu View Post
    Was it penned by husaberk?
    He'd be the only one with a microscope that enlarges things large enough to be legible.

  14. #6524
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    Looks like Nancies been drinking again... Maybe she's thinking about giving up?




  15. #6525
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    Non so blind as thos who will not see!

    It's immaterial who "we" (the voters) want to represent us - it is totally dependent upon who "they" want to represent their interests and outcomes.

    Election outcomes are always heads they win tails we lose - results planned bought and paid for well in advance. -

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