Akaroa GP rant

[Berries]

I've been pilloried on a UK forum for disagreeing with crossing the centre line to better see through a sweeping corner. It's commonly taught now, apparently. That's a pursuit technique IMHO. And a bad habit to make habitual on the roads you habitually ride on.

When is a habit a habit? I grew up with the old "I paid for it so I will bloody use it" UK approach to lane use and even now see no problem whatsoever with crossing the centreline on a RH bend. I don't do it so much here because I know of a few places with absolutely perfect through visibility where the Police like to hide to catch people doing it, not because it is dangerous on that particular corner but because it is supposedly indicative of a habit. Complete and utter shit. The habit is to cut corners if is safe to do so.

Unfortunately everything is done by the book these days with no leeway for whether an action was safe or not.

I did find a solution this afternoon though, overtaking on RH bends. If I had cut the corner with no car in front of me I would have been breaking the law however as I was overtaking someone (with 100m clear visibility blah blah blah) I was legal.

Which just goes to show what a complete crock of shit the rule is.

[SVboy]

I think it's important to try and give yourself options. I ride a sports bike on the GP and tend to late apex, early on the throttle, which can square off the corner. However one size does not fit all, because of the variety of corner types and hazards on that road. Some corners are definitely best approached with a conservative line and all corners have to be given the consideration for the hazards you can't see. Last weekend, coming up the long straight from Barry's bay, as I entered the tight right hander, a Mazda Bongo coming down the hill COMPLETELY entered my lane! I was able to delay my turn in and take a wide arc around the corner. Closest call I have had for a while. A good reminder.

[Voltaire]

Maybe instead of showing a sales bloke not taking his foot off the throttle and the other guy jumping the give way or stop sign they should show 5 minutes of the carnage and the

Police knocking at the relatives front door.

I was passing Police Station in Hanoi a couple of years back and they had a wall off carnage showing decapitated scooter riders and body parts scattered all over the road, was

fairly sobering...considering we were riding from Saigon to Hanoi and apparently lots of riders and drivers are.....well...pissed.

like this one. WARNING CONTAINS PICTURE OF DEATH.
http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFile...6/80716298.jpg

[HenryDorsetCase]

The issue was when we were coming into left hand corners and we were using the wide approach (2/3 of the way from the left of the road to the centre line) we ended up bloody close to the numpties coming around the right hand corner the other way with their wheels on the centre line. Their lean put them well over into our ride of the road.

Just wait until some spotty faced irk in a Skyline with double-overhead grease nipples comes into a left hander too hot and drifts wide. He'll make a hood ornament of anything on his side of the road.

And the other point here is that riding is done from habit. I bet any of those idiots I saw yesterday would have said they had plenty of room, and they had seen that the way was clear. Yes, it was clear. Apart from us coming the other way.

Well, sure. I get what you're saying. And I agree. But fucktard grease nipple guy running wide will likely take out anybody on his side of the road. The closest I have ever come to death on that road was coming round one of those corners (near the top on the town side) and HELLO there is a fucking BOAT in my lane. Shitforbrains with his 4WD had taken it real wide coming in to the point that the fucking boat trailer was still in my lane. I managed to fit between the end of the trailer and the left side seal edge but it was close. And quick.

Life is risk. You mitigate as much as you can and then get stuck in.

If you can see, go for it. I think its important to get both knees down at least once on any trip over.

[Blackbird]

I think it's a bad idea myself. If everyone always stayed on their own side of the road there'd be bugger all head ons.

Absolutely, and George Formby's comment about bad habits becoming ingrained are quite interesting from the opposite perspective. When we're mentoring IAM trainee Observers in Roadcraft, part of the process is building errors into our ride for them to detect. It's actually bloody hard to make deliberate errors. Goes to show if you try and do things right for long enough, it sticks

[rastuscat]

Absolutely, and George Formby's comment about bad habits becoming ingrained are quite interesting from the opposite perspective. When we're mentoring IAM trainee Observers in Roadcraft, part of the process is building errors into our ride for them to detect. It's actually bloody hard to make deliberate errors. Goes to show if you try and do things right for long enough, it sticks

Hearing ya. When I was being audited for the Basic Handling Skills Test qualification I had to build deli erase errors into my demo rides. Damn hard work.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

[george formby]

The UK Popos use the full width of the road to get a better approach view to left handers.

I think it's a bad idea myself. If everyone always stayed on their own side of the road there'd be bugger all head ons.

I appreciate your agreement, Our Popo instructor up here thinks the same way.

I think it stems from the Popo Tv series' in the UK. About pursuit training and exciting stuff with helicopters and fast cars.

[OddDuck]

I've got a mate who does the cutting corners / leaning over the line thing... a lot. Drives me mental.

Every damn time I go over the Rimutakas and catch myself projecting over the centerline, there's some massive cliff wall of a truck coming straight at me, right around the next bend. Anything (helmet, shoulder etc) projecting even six inches over is going to get smashed big time.

It's an interesting road to try to GP-ride (and a lot of people do) but a rider is really taking serious chances with leaning over the line. Correction time on some of those corners is less than half a second.

[george formby]

Absolutely, and George Formby's comment about bad habits becoming ingrained are quite interesting from the opposite perspective. When we're mentoring IAM trainee Observers in Roadcraft, part of the process is building errors into our ride for them to detect. It's actually bloody hard to make deliberate errors. Goes to show if you try and do things right for long enough, it sticks

Cheers. I was feeling unique. We're only human and I've learned that to be good at something you need to practice not just participate. And keep practicing.

[Gremlin]

Yup. Better off with good ones. I've been pilloried on a UK forum for disagreeing with crossing the centre line to better see through a sweeping corner. It's commonly taught now, apparently.

The term is offsiding and I believe is now being actively discouraged by IAM UK. In NZ crossing the centre line is illegal unless you're overtaking, turning etc. so it's never been accepted.

Rastus, you likely know my take, but for the others, I'm an IAM NZ Observer, so I'm taking associates for observed rides, giving them feedback and working with them to achieve advanced test standard so they can pass the test and become full members. Positioning alone can't be covered and nailed in one ride (plus needs practise to overcome any bad habits). There is the basic positioning of left of lane for right hander, right of lane for left hander, changing that based on information then move onto linking corners and so on.

So hopefully my own riding standard is pretty high Subject to safety, the right positioning gives you a better and further view forward, allowing you to see things sooner and more time to react (and for oncoming traffic to see you sooner as well... seen many vehicles decide that perhaps they should go back to using their own lane for the corner). Rastus, I also wouldn't expect riders to maintain any sort of position close to centre line on left hander with oncoming vehicles, instead sacrificing position for safety.

For me, I corner with reserves, able to change line should the situation require it.

[Ocean1]

Anything done repetitively and thoughtlessly is a habit. My point with crossing the centre line in the UK is just my opinion that it is a condoned technique which could easily put a rider who is not paying attention in the face of oncoming traffic at high speed. I fail to see the benefit of being in the oncoming lane when I can achieve the same thing in my lane by slowing down slightly. IMHO

But yeah, na. Have a decent safety margin and keep refining it with experience, don't be habitual!

More info on being skittled by a pine cone would be nice.

Re habit. I was using it in the sense of a learned reaction to outside stimuli rather than any formal policy. But you're quite right, I know one particular gentleman who has a tendency to cut corners and has on one occasion done it when he shouldn't.

I guess my point was that conscious decisions about where you are on the road shouldn't be unduly constrained by legal considerations. Lump that together with RC's general rule of thumb re approach positioning and call that a good default strategy.

Speed. I like to tour with enough margin to be able to deal with three unknowable problems on any given corner. Each problem can result in substituting speed for line and still give me a good chance at making it work.

I've been known to ride at a speed allowing for just two problems. Occasionally. Never just one.

[rastuscat]

The term is offsiding and I believe is now being actively discouraged by IAM UK. In NZ crossing the centre line is illegal unless you're overtaking, turning etc. so it's never been accepted.

Rastus, you likely know my take, but for the others, I'm an IAM NZ Observer, so I'm taking associates for observed rides, giving them feedback and working with them to achieve advanced test standard so they can pass the test and become full members. Positioning alone can't be covered and nailed in one ride (plus needs practise to overcome any bad habits). There is the basic positioning of left of lane for right hander, right of lane for left hander, changing that based on information then move onto linking corners and so on.

So hopefully my own riding standard is pretty high Subject to safety, the right positioning gives you a better and further view forward, allowing you to see things sooner and more time to react (and for oncoming traffic to see you sooner as well... seen many vehicles decide that perhaps they should go back to using their own lane for the corner). Rastus, I also wouldn't expect riders to maintain any sort of position close to centre line on left hander with oncoming vehicles, instead sacrificing position for safety.

For me, I corner with reserves, able to change line should the situation require it.

It's one reason why I haven't progressed my IAM application. The chap I was working with insisted on extreme-width lines.

I prefer and coach safety margins.

[Virago]

It's the one thing I've never figured out with bikers.

Let's find the nicest twisty road, and do everything possible to straight-line it.

[Blackbird]

It's one reason why I haven't progressed my IAM application. The chap I was working with insisted on extreme-width lines.

I prefer and coach safety margins.

Extreme positioning is always tempered by safety, stability and view in that order. In my view, there is no conflict as position is always dictated by the circumstance encountered; it is not an unwavering rule.

[EJK]

Can you send me that pic with the bus imposed? It'll be great to use as a training example.

https://www.facebook.com/24833050867...type=3&theater