Death by Cheesecutter, again?

[James Deuce]

Where have I whinged about them? I firmly believe that, though they have the potential to maim/kill, so do many other factors of riding a motorbike on the road.

Didn't say that you did. There has been a sustained whinge from disconnected organisations and individuals who claim to represent the nonexistent collective noun of "motorcycling" for some time now.

WRBs have no more potential to kill or maim than any other roadside furniture, and that is supported by peer reviewed data that may or may not be biased.

I believe that any stationary object is a problem, but, as I've said, the biggest problem I've faced on the road is other stuff hitting me, not me hitting it. Singling out one kind of roadside furniture isn't addressing the core issues that can be fixed to a point, of mental attitude and skills training/practice.

[Ocean1]

Didn't say that you did. There has been a sustained whinge from disconnected organisations and individuals who claim to represent the nonexistent collective noun of "motorcycling" for some time now.

WRBs have no more potential to kill or maim than any other roadside furniture, and that is supported by peer reviewed data that may or may not be biased.

I believe that any stationary object is a problem, but, as I've said, the biggest problem I've faced on the road is other stuff hitting me, not me hitting it. Singling out one kind of roadside furniture isn't addressing the core issues that can be fixed to a point, of mental attitude and skills training/practice.

I resemble the inference that I was ever connected, or organized.

And I'm not personally singling out WRB. I simply find it less than equitable that any consideration of bikers has been omitted from whatever process may or, (as I suspect) may not be responsible for decisions to install all sorts of hard lumpy shit on our roads.

That, and I've observed that every other fucking minority in NZ manages to get pretty much what they want by the simple expediency of bitching and moaning about shit with a maximum application of righteous indignation as loudly as possible.

At least I've got not only personal interest on my side but actual basic physics.

Also, I don't agree that you're more likely to modify other's driving / riding performance than the environment in which they fail to perform. Physical manipulation of our environment to our advantage is what we do, becoming something other than human isn't.

[James Deuce]

Also, I don't agree that you're more likely to modify other's driving / riding performance than the environment in which they fail to perform. Physical manipulation of our environment to our advantage is what we do, becoming something other than human isn't.

I'm not asking for much. Just an uplift from appallingly shitty to faintly aware.

[Maha]

Didn't say that you did. There has been a sustained whinge from disconnected organisations and individuals who claim to represent the nonexistent collective noun of "motorcycling" for some time now.

WRBs have no more potential to kill or maim than any other roadside furniture, and that is supported by peer reviewed data that may or may not be biased.

I believe that any stationary object is a problem, but, as I've said, the biggest problem I've faced on the road is other stuff hitting me, not me hitting it. Singling out one kind of roadside furniture isn't addressing the core issues that can be fixed to a point, of mental attitude and skills training/practice.

Back in 2007 Jim when the 'Riders against Wire Rope Barrier' campaign got under way, there where around 8,000 signatures collected by way of a petition. Quasi/Zapf and Draco were the prime movers of this. A shit load of bikers turned up to the first 'protest ride'. Under two years later the petition starters lost interest in what they had started and handed the petition onto another group (AAG) which morphed into MAG. Mag did absolutely nothing (Anne and I were apart of MAG the from 2010 until 2011) the papers sat in a closet until 2013 where they were eventually placed into a skip and dumped due to repeated disinterest from the new MAG to take them back.
My point is, there is apathy around such issues and even though some seem dedicated to theses issues, they ultimately fade away only to be spewed up every few years or so, where the same arguments get tossed about for a week or two until the argument hits the wall...so to speak.

[James Deuce]

Back in 2007 Jim when the 'Riders against Wire Rope Barrier' campaign got under way, there where around 8,000 signatures collected by way of a petition. Quasi/Zapf and Draco were the prime movers of this. A shit load of bikers turned up to the first 'protest ride'. Under two years later the petition starters lost interest in what they had started and handed the petition onto another group (AAG) which morphed into MAG. Mag did absolutely nothing (Anne and I were apart of MAG the from 09' until 2010) the papers sat in a closet until 2013 where they were eventually placed into a skip and dumped due to repeated disinterest from the new MAG to take them back.
My point is, there is apathy around such issues and even though some seem dedicated to theses issues, they ultimately fade away only to be spewed up every few years or so, where the same arguments get tossed about for a week or two until the argument hits the wall...so to speak.

Yeah I know and I went on the rides. I've read stuff since then which has changed my mind.

[scumdog]

So, after all this 'discussion' has anybody got figures of those bikers killed due to impact with wrb vs those whose life was saved by an oncoming vehicle hitting the wrb and deing stopped/deflected out of the path of a motorcyclist?

[Maha]

So, after all this 'discussion' has anybody got figures of those bikers killed due to impact with wrb vs those whose life was saved by an oncoming vehicle hitting the wrb and deing stopped/deflected out of the path of a motorcyclist?

From the NZTA website.

A study of NZ motorcycle-barrier crash data from January 2001 to July 2013 shows of 20 motorcycle fatalities sustained as a result of riders hitting a roadside or median barrier, just 3 involved wire rope barriers, while 13 involved traditional steel ‘W’ beam barriers and 4 other barrier types. Over the same time period there were 97 motorcyclist fatalities from collisions with posts or poles, 70 from hitting traffic signs and 93 from crashing into unprotected trees.

[swbarnett]

From the NZTA website.

A study of NZ motorcycle-barrier crash data from January 2001 to July 2013 shows of 20 motorcycle fatalities sustained as a result of riders hitting a roadside or median barrier, just 3 involved wire rope barriers, while 13 involved traditional steel ‘W’ beam barriers and 4 other barrier types. Over the same time period there were 97 motorcyclist fatalities from collisions with posts or poles, 70 from hitting traffic signs and 93 from crashing into unprotected trees.

If all roads had barriers presumably the "70 from hitting traffic signs and 93 from crashing into unprotected trees" would instead die from hitting a barrier. I wonder how many riders went down and managed to avoid both trees and traffic? They would likely also become barrier victims.

[scumdog]

How many have been hit by an oncoming vehicle crossing the centre-line?

[James Deuce]

How many have been hit by an oncoming vehicle crossing the centre-line?

Hello!

But it was only a mirror to the elbow because I ducked. Most of the time I don't let them get that close.

[skippa1]

How many have been hit by an oncoming vehicle crossing the centre-line?

Me.....no pine box though

[Moi]

Didn't say that you did. There has been a sustained whinge from disconnected organisations and individuals who claim to represent the nonexistent collective noun of "motorcycling" for some time now.

WRBs have no more potential to kill or maim than any other roadside furniture, and that is supported by peer reviewed data that may or may not be biased.

I believe that any stationary object is a problem, but, as I've said, the biggest problem I've faced on the road is other stuff hitting me, not me hitting it. Singling out one kind of roadside furniture isn't addressing the core issues that can be fixed to a point, of mental attitude and skills training/practice.

+1... especially the second and third paragraphs.

[Moi]

So, after all this 'discussion' has anybody got figures of those bikers killed due to impact with wrb vs those whose life was saved by an oncoming vehicle hitting the wrb and being stopped/deflected out of the path of a motorcyclist?

From the NZTA website.

A study of NZ motorcycle-barrier crash data from January 2001 to July 2013 shows of 20 motorcycle fatalities sustained as a result of riders hitting a roadside or median barrier, just 3 involved wire rope barriers, while 13 involved traditional steel ‘W’ beam barriers and 4 other barrier types. Over the same time period there were 97 motorcyclist fatalities from collisions with posts or poles, 70 from hitting traffic signs and 93 from crashing into unprotected trees.

I would suggest that we will never know how many were saved by the barriers, as the figures quoted above are for motorcyclists who died as a result of hitting "something"...

but looking at the scrapes on median barriers I would hazard a guess that there are many road users alive today because the barrier did its job.

[Maha]

I would suggest that we will never know how many were saved by the barriers, as the figures quoted above are for motorcyclists who died as a result of hitting "something"...

but looking at the scrapes on median barriers I would hazard a guess that there are many road users alive today because the barrier did its job.

100% agree. either way, the annual road toll would be astronomical with a barrier of sorts on the Motorway system's and high crash rate areas.... unfortunately people may die by hitting them from time to time but at least they don't kill an innocent road user in the process.

[eldog]

Should change the name of this thread to "Death by barrier - how can we reduce injury and death caused by them"