Death by Cheesecutter, again?

[eldog]

How many have been hit by an oncoming vehicle crossing the centre-line?

You should move to the Franklin area - far too many idiots crossing the centreline on blind corners, they just don't do it as much with a barrier installed.

[eldog]

100% agree. either way, the annual road toll would be astronomical withOUT a barrier of sorts on the Motorway system's and high crash rate areas.... unfortunately people may die by hitting them from time to time but at least they don't kill an innocent road user in the process.

Was this what you meant?

I think having barriers helps, its just that they could be improved for us riders

[trustme]

Should change the name of this thread to "Death by barrier - how can we reduce injury and death caused by them"

By not falling off & hitting them !!!!

[eldog]

By not falling off & hitting them !!!!

you don't have to fall off, you can be pushed into them

[Ocean1]

I'm not asking for much. Just an uplift from appallingly shitty to faintly aware.

Then stop treating them like appallingly shitty motorists. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/22/wo...signposts.html

"Mr. Monderman drove him to a small country road with cows in every direction. Their presence was unnecessarily reinforced by a large, standard-issue European traffic sign with a picture of a cow on it.

"He said: 'What do you expect to find here? Wallabies?"' Mr. Hamilton-Baillie recalled. "'They're treating you like you're a complete idiot, and if people treat you like a complete idiot, you'll act like one.'

"Here was someone who had rethought a lot of issues from complete scratch. Essentially, what it means is a transfer of power and responsibility from the state to the individual and the community."

[trustme]

Tell me how many times riders have been pushed into barriers as opposed to those who have fallen off . I'm somewhat sceptical.

[eldog]

several times I have come close to being pushed into the WRBs at Rangariri

how would I know how many actually were pushed - there may have been a few

Each death is a cost
Each injury is a cost

Each life saved by having a barrier is a saving

I remember before Manurewa to Papakura/Drury had barriers, at one stage there seemed to be a death by head on once a week.
Then the WRBs were added, a few more deaths, since then its either become a non event or people aren't dying there.

[buggerit]

WRB are great revenue generating structures for the repair crew and 4 traffic management trucks every time someone hits it.
Why do all the toll roads have concrete barriers, more cost effective for private investors?
Why do people that are for WRB , make the comparison between WRB and no barrier, rather than an alternative like concrete.
Most of the time you are travelling parallel to the barrier if it is a central barrier, so hitting it is a glancing blow rather
than a frontal impact .
Why with all the new OSH regulations, are they allowed to erect something that is more dangerous for some customers
when there is and alternative?

[Swoop]

I don't remember ever having encountered loose* chip without warning.

Come further north, we have shitloads.
After a ride I've rung the council over it, especially as being on one of the nicest roads close to town.



* Bonus points for using the correct amount of the letter "o" in that word.
The amount of KB'ers who can't work out the correct word for their sentence...

[Ocean1]

Tell me how many times riders have been pushed into barriers as opposed to those who have fallen off . I'm somewhat sceptical.

For me it's been attempted three times. Once deliberately, by a rental van full of corrections' clients.

The logging truck would have succeeded if I'd had just a couple of HP less.

[Maha]

Tell me how many times riders have been pushed into barriers as opposed to those who have fallen off . I'm somewhat sceptical.

I will say none, with just three deaths involving wire rope barriers in 13 years (I know how one of those happened) that leaves two, out of those two remaining, the chances of either begin as a result of being pushed by another vehicle wont even enter the equation. I am happy for anyone to prove me wrong.

'Attempts' and 'come close to' is not actual... in relation to the question asked.

'A study of NZ motorcycle-barrier crash data from January 2001 to July 2013 shows of 20 motorcycle fatalities just 3 involved wire rope barriers'

[russd7]

been avoiding getting in on this debate because everything i have seen so far to do with people being against WRB has been totally based on emotion.

so i have a question for those that are so against these things, what is it about these WRB that you believe are actually designed to kill motorcyclists that are not going to kill you if it is a concrete barrier you hit instead.

[James Deuce]

been avoiding getting in on this debate because everything i have seen so far to do with people being against WRB has been totally based on emotion.

so i have a question for those that are so against these things, what is it about these WRB that you believe are actually designed to kill motorcyclists that are not going to kill you if it is a concrete barrier you hit instead.

Actually I got knocked off by a truck veering across three lanes and hit a concrete barrier and slid along it. I broke my wrist because I had my arm out as I went down but the barrier saved me from ending up on the wrong side of the motorway and caused no injury at all due to me hitting it at an oblique angle and skating along it. I do prefer that to getting tangled up in posts or going between them and emerging into oncoming traffic. But like I said before you can't guarantee that you'll fall and slide the same way in the same scenario.

[eldog]

Actually I got knocked off by a truck veering across three lanes and hit a concrete barrier and slid along it. I broke my wrist because I had my arm out as I went down but the barrier saved me from ending up on the wrong side of the motorway and caused no injury at all due to me hitting it at an oblique angle and skating along it. I do prefer that to getting tangled up in posts or going between them and emerging into oncoming traffic. But like I said before you can't guarantee that you'll fall and slide the same way in the same scenario.

This is what I think concrete barrier or any barrier with a continuous surface would be better than the current WRB/W barrier systems. Adding another section to the lower side of the barrier would be an improvement IMHO.

[Ocean1]

been avoiding getting in on this debate because everything i have seen so far to do with people being against WRB has been totally based on emotion.

so i have a question for those that are so against these things, what is it about these WRB that you believe are actually designed to kill motorcyclists that are not going to kill you if it is a concrete barrier you hit instead.

Basic physics. Very basic.

If you hit a concrete wall head on, at 90 degrees fast enough to generate about 40g then you're dead.
Hit it at 45 degrees at the same speed and you're going to experience 24g. Likely broken stuff, trip to ED. A bit sore.
Hit it at 15 degrees, (the max angle most likely in a barrier accident) and you're going to experience 6.8g. Likely to be some grazing. A bit miffed.

Hit a WRB post at the same speed at 90 degrees, (ignoring, for the moment the fact that the impact's spread over nowhere near as much of your body, so about half the above sped is all that's required) and you're dead. There isn't another option, you can't hit them at any other angle.

So yeah, very emotive.