Pink Batts vs Insulation blanket material

[eldog]

Requirement is for the wall between to be insulated and not the attached garage external walls or roof. Fucking stupid arse dumb fuck in Wellington somewhere making this rule. A house costs how many hundreds of thousands to build yet the boffins say it is OK to skimp on a couple grand tops on a attached garage.

I installed some r3 or something in the roof of my attached garage - made a huge difference in the summer (cooler) and currently a lot warmer. I should have gone for a higher rating but I was being a tight bastard at the time. Oh well always a top-up or blanket to add when funds allow.

I would agree as that's what I plan to do.
Around the area I live quite a few have converted their garages in bedrooms

i did my house with off cuts from trademe, half bales etc, cost less and i don't care that there's differnet types, noone looks in there except me

you were lucky, I have to get up there to deal with the odd dead rodent
My plan is to replace the spouting adding in mesh(alli or stst if I can find some, not that plastic shit) to stop leaves and rodents

greenstuf>pinkbatts. Properly done between the timber is fine, only if you do a half arse job that you'd need a blankie over the top.
Also need to batten your wiring and stuff.

going for greenstuff with the higher R value

What do you mean batten your wiring and stuff?
(Originally read this as 'batter your wife and stuff')

Old style down lights let out more heat than opening a window. An average house can have 30 down lights, all needing to let air through them and a gap to the insulation.

Just go for the highest R value. Get the professionals to install it. If you do it yourself, don't block the air path to the soffit. Mould and moisture in the roof cavity causes loads of issues.

yep professional install AFTER the lights have been changed and rearranged in a few places, its lit in the weirdest locations

modern downlights carefully selected will go into the old holes, some have clearances up to 150mm from timber, to the side and above, often when the previous ones were installed they didn't care about clearances to timber, so not all new lights will go in. the older ones were generally 50watt, the new around 9 -12 so pay for themselves by being around six times more efficient, and have a better spread of light too. 6 halogen downlights will use a unit in 3 hrs around 30 cents, six led's will use the same power over 18 hours so you can work out payback time, so if you're spending a bit on insulation think about putting new downlights in, especially in lounges where they are on a lot and will pay for themselves over time, toilets hallways and bathrooms are usually not on long so the power savings while there take sometime to recover
look for downlights with 0 scb and 0 hcb measurements (hcb and scb are clearance to building elements -timber) be careful they all should have a mic rating this is the minium insulation clearance so as some say the insulation can go right over them, yes but there are some clearances.

when I brought the house all the light were 100W, brought tears to the eyes when at 2am you turned the lights (6) on in the kitchen=600 W FFS all I wanted was a drink.

Then blankie over the top is the go.
Install is also more straightforward - and less cuts = less gaps. A lot of the benefit in batts depends on the quality of install.

New LEDS are a shizload better than old downlights. They are not airtight, but the cost of making them so (I found) outstripped the benefit. Mainly cos noone really makes the right kind of thing in NZ, and we're relatively ignorant to the benefits of airtightness in a living space.

New LEDs will have a massively higher cost/benefit than new insulation. If you have the old cans, get rid of them, they're evil. Ideally you want IC-F rated LED's.

Changing them and rearranging some is the plan, just gotto find a supplier with dimmable ones that will fit.
Most likely Philips or some other named brand so the colours are consistent.
Some cheap ones the colours aren't the same

new led downlights are airtight, unless you're using gimbal ones but even they have very small airgaps. one thing the 50watt ones did is create a shitload of heat, with the airgap and thermal movement they literally sucked the air from the house as their hot air rose. ic-f a very small part of selecting the right units, the scb and hcb is the most important for retrofit, and with this if these ratings are zero they will be ic-f automatically. there are als differnt heat rated lights, and the insulation needs to be compatible with this, and certified, otherwise your insurance could be invalid. the buckets cost money, not as much as you link says in nz the only cost saving in using them is you don't need a sparky to install, although you are allowed to legally install downlights in your own home you live in

I have a couple of gimball old fashioned downlights, they do the job but ugly as.... and the little rodents can drop through them as well as roaches etc
I will check out the IC-f and scb and hcb as suggested thanks....
I want to do this whole job once and only once, just gotto get the sequence right

except it isnt. And if your shits air tight you building will always be a nett energy consumer to get the requisite (healthy) number of air changes.

Passive building design ftw.

Nah building definitely not air tight which is good.
want it rodent tight though.....
getting heat pump quotes too to see if that will help, with outside air (10%)
however haven't really had to have the fire or heaters on much the past couple of years

thanks for the info
Anyone with ideas on heat pumps..... maybe I should search first

[Akzle]

What do you mean batten your wiring and stuff?
(Originally read this as 'batter your wife and stuff')

you could do that...

New code requires wiring runs to be supported, ie, on battens, usually on top of insulfluff.

Old wiring was often just pulled the shortest route they could and either unsupported or "supported" by the ceiling panels.

[jellywrestler]

you could do that...

New code requires wiring runs to be supported, ie, on battens, usually on top of insulfluff.

Old wiring was often just pulled the shortest route they could and either unsupported or "supported" by the ceiling panels.

old code was properly supported, new says adequatly supported, everything within two meters of manhole, outside this everything except where there is less than 600m verticle roof space, so nowadays a lot is just laid there.
mainly to do with people storing stuff in their ceilings and moving around and kneeling on cables, we use to have to clip our cables every nine inches, my maggot used to get so itchy flopping it out all the time around the batts and folding it in half to use as a measure...
one thing to not is that often the switchboard has to be rerated if new insulation is going in, ie if the old power point wires were laid on top of insulation and you shove a blanket over it it's deemed to be fully surrounded and derated to 16 amps, old for lights was 10amps fully surrounded is 6 amps, even the insulation companies won't tell you this

[eldog]

you could do that...

New code requires wiring runs to be supported, ie, on battens, usually on top of insulfluff.

Old wiring was often just pulled the shortest route they could and either unsupported or "supported" by the ceiling panels.

IIRC the wiring is attached to the battens, but I need to look again.
The original wiring isn't too bad, its the newer wiring that's a bit ugly (I doubt a reg sparky did it)

Passive - yes I have some thermal curtains - some have curtains, some have none.

[eldog]

old code was properly supported, new says adequatly supported, everything within two meters of manhole, outside this everything except where there is less than 600m verticle roof space, so nowadays a lot is just laid there.
one thing to not is that often the switchboard has to be rerated if new insulation is going in, ie if the old power point wires were laid on top of insulation and you shove a blanket over it it's deemed to be fully surrounded and derated to 16 amps, old for lights was 10amps fully surrounded is 6 amps, even the insulation companies won't tell you this

Bugger, I did wonder

Now it looks like I will really need to get up in the roof this weekend FFS.

I am looking at adding a new manhole beside the switchboard (I can see a few cables will need to be added if I put 5 heat pumps in), it maybe a good thing, some of its a bit dodgy

nope no one is saying anything they just want to sell their shit

I will ask my sparky in the next few days.

[Moi]

... I am looking at adding a new manhole beside the switchboard (I can see a few cables will need to be added if I put 5 heat pumps in)...

Instead of a new manhole, why not an attic ladder?

If you're considering FIVE heat pumps, why not consider a proper central heating system? Perhaps a radiator system using heat pump transfer units [as used to heat swimming pools]... probably not much more expensive than five heat pumps...

[eldog]

Instead of a new manhole, why not an attic ladder?

If you're considering FIVE heat pumps, why not consider a proper central heating system? Perhaps a radiator system using heat pump transfer units [as used to heat swimming pools]... probably not much more expensive than five heat pumps...

I have been looking at Sellwood? attic stairs
trouble is switchboard is in the garage
not much room above it 3-4 feet IIRC (look again in the weekend)
the main part of the house theres more than 6ft in the centre its a 30 degree roof into a 12.5 degree roof at the edge (I know I measured it for the spouting replacement calc for down pipes)

I could put a set in the hallway, next to the rafter division to the garage.....

I am open to any suggestions(keep it clean you KBers)

I ask the heat pump salespeople to suggest systems.
I want to be able to:
switch off rooms
different temps/air flow
have some ability to circulate air (un heated/cooled) to keep the air moving at set periods of the day - say 1 minute every 1/2 hour
would like to bring in some outside fresh air 5-10% (I don't know what the international std is for this but I can find out)
Is it possible/worth it to use a heat transfer system to 'heat/cool' the exhaust/fresh air

maybe now that I have made a list I should go back to the heat pump salesman and get him to relook at what he proposes

I don't have any experience in heat/cooling but the info from KB is great

[jellywrestler]

I have been looking at Sellwood? attic stairs
trouble is switchboard is in the garage
not much room above it 3-4 feet IIRC (look again in the weekend)
the main part of the house theres more than 6ft in the centre its a 30 degree roof into a 12.5 degree roof at the edge (I know I measured it for the spouting replacement calc for down pipes)

I could put a set in the hallway, next to the rafter division to the garage.....

I am open to any suggestions(keep it clean you KBers)

I ask the heat pump salespeople to suggest systems.
I want to be able to:
switch off rooms
different temps/air flow
have some ability to circulate air (un heated/cooled) to keep the air moving at set periods of the day - say 1 minute every 1/2 hour
would like to bring in some outside fresh air 5-10% (I don't know what the international std is for this but I can find out)
Is it possible/worth it to use a heat transfer system to 'heat/cool' the exhaust/fresh air

maybe now that I have made a list I should go back to the heat pump salesman and get him to relook at what he proposes

I don't have any experience in heat/cooling but the info from KB is great

post the job on www.builderscrack.co.nz they'll come to you

[Swoop]

2K?
For insulation? You're being ripped off (charged the "going rate").

Throw a layer of Green Stuff over the top of the slumped shite that is there. As others have said, avoid downlights and do not encase wires in the insulation. Just lay them on top of the new stuff.
Top Tip: Avoid Batts. Itchy shit that is "sooo yesterday".


I bought a few bales off of BetradeMe (leftovers from builders jobs) and whacked them into the ceiling.

Top Tip #2: Winter is the BEST time to insulate, since the temperature in the roofspace is bearable compared to summer.

I am looking at adding a new manhole beside the switchboard (I can see a few cables will need to be added if I put 5 heat pumps in)

FIVE!!!????

Fuck off! Three is taking the piss (in the colder areas of the country).

[jellywrestler]

As others have said, avoid downlights and do not encase wires in the insulation. Just lay them on top of the new stuff.
Top Tip: Avoid Batts. Itchy shit that is "sooo yesterday".


.

what's the point in insulating when you leave large gaps, the old downlights run hot and the thermal movement of the air over th bulbs means it's like a small fan running, many small fans throughout the house.
also old batts, just a bit of talcum powder on the body will help with this shit, it won't stick to ya and itch

[Swoop]

what's the point in insulating when you leave large gaps, the old downlights run hot and the thermal movement of the air over th bulbs means it's like a small fan running, many small fans throughout the house.

Them's the regs. Downlights need a gap OR a tin-can covering it.

[Akzle]

listen to that guy. Im just an enthusiastic amateur.

Passive is with regard to building design. Done properly a building can require 5/8ths of fuckall, or in fact nothing, to maintain livable temperature. Bit late by the time you retrofit.

Heat exchanger ftw.

[eldog]

lPassive is with regard to building design. Done properly a building can require 5/8ths of fuckall, or in fact nothing, to maintain livable temperature. Bit late by the time you retrofit.

Heat exchanger ftw.

Unfortunately it's a retrofit, couldn't find another house that meets my current criteria.

current house is not to bad IMO

but in summer with no wind it's too hot to sleep and the mozzies are a bastard so try to keep windows open during the day while they don't seem to be about, closed at night.

[eldog]

Top Tip #2: Winter is the BEST time to insulate, since the temperature in the roofspace is bearable compared to summer.

FIVE!!!????

Fuck off! Three is taking the piss (in the colder areas of the country).

In summer the inside the roof of my house is a sauna, great for dead things

I prefer independent systems as each room will be inhabited by mutant Martian bikers

[jellywrestler]

and do not encase wires in the insulation. Just lay them on top of the new stuff.
.

there's not often the length to do that