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Thread: The Sensible Twin

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    Probably offered at a price Bluewing couldn't refuse - to get shot of remaining stock in Japan.
    Wouldn't be the first - or last time - we were a dumping ground.
    Yeah like the GL145 and few others they were odballs but the MVX as far as i am aware was actually pretty popular in japan.
    You can still get new cranks NOS for a 3K

    Quote Originally Posted by jellywrestler View Post
    story goes we got em cheap as they were destined for the crusher as they were so poor.
    remember at the time they were approx $3454 the yammys were $4 and the rg gammas were $5400, vast difference between 3 x 250's really

    Honda were at the time letting a lot of young engineers loose. who were trying to use car techniques and less selective fitting and checking tolerances etc. My understanding was it wasnt successful at the time.
    as they never had thr practical experiences of leaving margins for error.
    there was also a production manufacturing war with Yamaha. as Yamaha were trying to be the biggest manufacturer that's why there was so many new models around then. From both.



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  2. #197
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    At Wanganui one year I was out for practice and following Jim Steadman on his TZ on my McIntosh. On the straight heading towards the pits, Jim blew past this guy on the right and I had him lined up on the left. He jumped left as Jim went past and I clipped him as I went past. I ended up going straight into the pit lane. Looking back all I saw was the bike cartwheeling down the road. It was the guys first ever road race. He ended up in hospital and I heard the bike was a write-off.
    The bike was a MVX250.
    The guys mates were not impressed with me and were keen to start a punchup in the pits.
    The organisers had changed practice order but not everybody was informed. Me and Jim shouldn't have been practicing with the guy.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Honda were at the time letting a lot of young engineers loose. who were trying to use car techniques and less selective fitting and checking tolerances etc. My understanding was it wasnt successful at the time.
    as they never had thr practical experiences of leaving margins for error.
    there was also a production manufacturing war with Yamaha. as Yamaha were trying to be the biggest manufacturer that's why there was so many new models around then. From both.
    True - but Yamaha didn't make as many mistakes. What you say about production techniques is true. The VF's suffered at that time from exactly that. The cranks are badly finished - particularly the oil holes on the journals. They decided that simply running a linishing tape across the holes was sufficient. It isn't.
    Every VF I saw with a big end that had picked up had sharp edges on the oil holes. A finishing step had been deleted IMO.
    Even the RC30 suffers from this. I've shown the one here to the owner's rep who was a tad surprised. We assumed you were supposed to finish it properly before racing it.
    Reason is a tool - remember where you left it..... The late, great, John Clarke

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    Even the RC30 suffers from this. I've shown the one here to the owner's rep who was a tad surprised. We assumed you were supposed to finish it properly before racing it.
    Funnily enough TZ's reportedly were thrown together like this. Bell wrote a whole chapter on writing the wrongs of the TZ quality control.Probably yamaha never made as many mistakes as honda in the early 80's, but theyre were still some bikes of the ilk, XZ550
    Generations of starter clutch's on others, but at least Yamaha could built a decent camchain tensioner and a cam that didn't eat itself ot weld itself to the head.
    Yamaha also never took the chances Honda did or introduced the production intonations like the non seperate cylinders etc.
    but with the yamaha farm bikes there were some howlers like the splined rear disc, hondas splines on the rear axel was quality control from the yanks, but Yamaha's disc was a silly design



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  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    but the MVX as far as i am aware was actually pretty popular in japan.
    You can still get new cranks NOS for a 3K
    Not much good if ya cant get pistons tho

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    . The VF's suffered at that time from exactly that. The cranks are badly finished - particularly the oil holes on the journals.
    Even the RC30 suffers from this.
    correct me if im wrong... but only the VF750 ever had an isue, never ever heard of a 4,5 or thour doing this and certnly never a RC30 which is in the VFR family bullet proof and over engineered eg: a 86 750 I had with 240k on it and never touched...

    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Yamaha could built a decent cam chain tensioner
    yeah well hondas issue there was simply that the auto tensioners only adjusted so far, the chains were still perfect nick... eg I did 3 in a 500EC Hondas parts depo was thriving well LOL
    cheers DD
    (Definately Dodgy)



  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangerous View Post
    Not much good if ya cant get pistons tho



    correct me if im wrong... but only the VF750 ever had an isue, never ever heard of a 4,5 or thour doing this and certnly never a RC30 which is in the VFR family bullet proof and over engineered eg: a 86 750 I had with 240k on it and never touched...



    yeah well hondas issue there was simply that the auto tensioners only adjusted so far, the chains were still perfect nick... eg I did 3 in a 500EC Hondas parts depo was thriving well LOL
    i thought it was a bad batch of vf500's where they didn't chamfer the oil holes in the crank were particularly bad, the early shaft drive sabres had issues with cams? and the vf 750's cooked in the six hour races as when they turned off for gas they overheated, most went about two to three laps and died except the one where they had bypassed the fan and run it off the battery direct.
    didn't help that the barrells were cast into the top crankcase not like normal bikes....

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangerous View Post
    Not much good if ya cant get pistons tho

    correct me if im wrong... but only the VF750 ever had an isue, never ever heard of a 4,5 or thour doing this and certnly never a RC30 which is in the VFR family bullet proof and over engineered eg: a 86 750 I had with 240k on it and never touched...
    yeah well hondas issue there was simply that the auto tensioners only adjusted so far, the chains were still perfect nick... eg I did 3 in a 500EC Hondas parts depo was thriving well LOL
    RC30's exploded all over the track in the first year i cant rememeber why but maybe as it was not an dual endfeed crank
    Its posted in the RC30 thread from the TWR?
    https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1131094352

    Honda in the early 80's introduced a system of tighter machining and put together any parts but the parts manufacturing wasn't accurate enough for a start off.
    They also had a lot of new designs with minimal R&D plus some buggars never serviced them properly or changed the oil.



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  8. #203
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    Greg tells me that Honda are just cunts for making bearing tolerances too tight anyway.
    Polemic....look it up

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    Greg tells me that Honda are just cunts for making bearing tolerances too tight anyway.
    This is basically true - up till recently anyway. The first CBR600 I pulled down (first version) had been run in carefully and raced once prior to being gone through.
    The bigends were just on the point of smearing, oil was carbonised on the back of the shells. The mains measured up at less than a thou clearance.
    It got cleaned up and reshelled with the thinnest shells in the range. Became a byword down here for speed and longevity.

    Of the V4's...I've seen personally 400's (VFR's and NC30's) 500's and 750's which have done bigends. In every case, hand on pacemaker, the crank was badly finished. The first two NC30's raced in ChCh both did bigends very quickly. Fixed them both, luckily VF400 shells fitted and the cranks weren't damaged.

    Dangerous, if you're out this way, come and look at an RC30 crank. Might change your opinion.
    Reason is a tool - remember where you left it..... The late, great, John Clarke

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    Probably offered at a price Bluewing couldn't refuse - to get shot of remaining stock in Japan.
    Wouldn't be the first - or last time - we were a dumping ground.

    Suzuki have been doing that for ages with Summer Fest and started before that was a thing with those IL4 Impulse bikes in the 80's - NZ could.t get enough of them!

  11. #206
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    DR400S
    GB400/500
    FT400
    GL400
    XZ400
    MVX250
    XT400
    VFR700
    LS400
    NV400
    Impact/Repulsive 400
    RG400

    And so forth
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  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    DR400S
    GB400/500
    FT400
    GL400
    XZ400
    MVX250
    XT400
    VFR700
    LS400
    NV400
    Impact/Repulsive 400
    RG400

    And so forth
    Are you saying some of the RG400's came in new? i thought assumed they were all jap imports
    The 700's were american models as there was a tariff to protect Harley on over 700cc bikes.



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  13. #208
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    Hmm, I remember a couple of the lads had RGs. Were they new? Not sure now you mention it. The others were.
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
    Think I'll go, back to sleep.
    Everybody listen, voices in my head
    Everybody listen, do yours say, what mine says?

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Are you saying some of the RG400's came in new? i thought assumed they were all jap imports
    The 700's were american models as there was a tariff to protect Harley on over 700cc bikes.
    Some of the 400's did come in new. Enough to have the Junior production class capacity for 2T's go up to 410 from memory. The Yamaha guys welcomed that and the RD400's too.
    Never seen a US market 700 here though I'm told some did come.

    The twin when tried with a second person showed it was achingly lean. Hand over the carbs got a response.
    So I've been in with the drills working from previous flatslide experience.
    If it's fine this weekend I may move things around and have another try.

    The tank went to another welder. It's ready to collect but an hour away - so next week.
    Reason is a tool - remember where you left it..... The late, great, John Clarke

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
    Some of the 400's did come in new. Enough to have the Junior production class capacity for 2T's go up to 410 from memory. The Yamaha guys welcomed that and the RD400's too.
    Never seen a US market 700 here though I'm told some did come.

    The twin when tried with a second person showed it was achingly lean. Hand over the carbs got a response.
    So I've been in with the drills working from previous flatslide experience.
    If it's fine this weekend I may move things around and have another try.

    The tank went to another welder. It's ready to collect but an hour away - so next week.
    There was another 400 CL400? i cant remember but it was high piped and late 80's.
    the 400s were popular as there was a massive jump in rego and insurance after 400cc in Japan i think.
    Amazing its lean? half the size and half as often half the power but i guess half the airflow to draw out the fuel as well.



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