agree with this , Malcom was a midpack clubman rider , top guy , but in my view you should be doing certian times on tracks before going up levels if you know what i'm saying , thats why i race buckets nowOriginally Posted by sidecar bob
i'm a wanker
agree with this , Malcom was a midpack clubman rider , top guy , but in my view you should be doing certian times on tracks before going up levels if you know what i'm saying , thats why i race buckets now
i'm over buckets
Low personal B.M.E.P.
Road course - yes, but did the organisers ask for the same as MNZ - at least 3 circuit meetings before entering ?
And of course we're in the nanny state now. Safety a priority as the dreaded word "liability" is likely to come up.
Graduated licences have been talked about for years. If they do come in, the system will cost more so expect licence costs to go even higher....
NEDWN VIII
Pretty much ... ''it was a case of very experienced riders making errors of judgment''. A large percentage of motorcycle deaths on a track or road can be attributed to those few words.
Forum whore
when i did following a fatality at manfield i had to draw pictures to explain the differnece between wets and slicks, the judge didn't know the function of tread. then the ambulance officers claimed they were delayed from leaving the track cause i was running around to get some dry clothes and his wallet etc for the injured riders son, this was utter bullshit as i had told him i would get this stuff and get it to him at the hospital, when i asked to speak again to correct this i was not allowed, despite being a formal witness.
it may have changed since though
Forum whore
I have a feeling that this will be heading towards a recommendation that will make future events there either pointless or super expensive.
I have huge respect to anyone whole enters these events and freely admit to have never been competent enough to consider it myself. But find it all a bit odd... 2 deaths is 2 too many of course BUT a drop in the bucket compared to many other things (like on farm quads, forestry, alcohol or tobacco) but investigate they have... It will be interested to see where this goes.
Cheers
Geriatric hoon
Before this hearing became news I had been noticing some findings of Coroner's courts in the paper. from time to time They tend to have 20/20 hindsight and even if it was a freak accident, but some i was not dotted, or t not crossed, they will make a recommendation. Some of these recommendations verge on being completely farcical. Maybe somebody should tell them that it isn't necessary that they make a recommendation every single time?
Instead of a coat of arms or similar over their head they could have a sign, "Sometimes shit happens".
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
Forum whore
They are merely recommendations that if carried out, would prevent a repeat of said fatality.
They are seldom turned into law or vigoursly enforced.
In the riders seat
Dispute may not have been quite correct, but in this instance it also related to tyres, compounds, treaded vs slicks in relation their estimates on corner speeds
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
Hardcore Biker
Have to disagree. Having ridden in the Hillclimb event numerous times. Having been on track with Malcolm, ridden on road with him I'd say the Cops estimated speed and assessment of what most probably happened was spot on for the pace Malcolm rode.
Look how much faster Jay Lawrence did it on his race Zed, 284km on his dial seconds before entering those fast curves. The rest of us mere mortals on 1000cc road spec bikes/tyres would be in the range from 190-230kph
Like Drew said he was not a hard charger, just a nice Guy out for a speed thrill, usually riding well within his limits. I was chatting to Malcolm 20 minutes before he died. Happy as ever. I also find it hard to comprehend how he lost it on that spot?
Also, we can't expect the Police to be experts in all fields, which their job demands they investigate. They can only do their best on the information available to them. If a bulldozer crashed down a bank should Mr Plod be an expert in bulldozer driving, handling, capability, manoeuvrability? A drunk falls down a drain and dies. Should Mr Plod be an expert in plumbing and drainlaying? Having an independent party investigate apparent accidental deaths IS A GOOD THING. Not a perfect thing, but necessary.
Will be a shame if this ends the hillclimb. Doubt I will ever do it again myself. Too many deaths. Like someone said, people in their 50s like me need to recognise we are not teenagers and no longer have as fast reaction times and bendy, bouncy bones. Instead we discover the hard way our bones have become brittle twigs.
Creepy they were both 59 and same corner 13. RIP.
Happiness is a means of travel, not a destination
Senior Grumpy Old Bastard
I'd completely agree with that. When a young man if I slid off my RD/GT/S1 250 etc the immediate reaction was to 'leap up' and 'cry about the bike'.. last time I had a 'off' {first one for over 20yrs} it was "Owwwwwww that fucking hurt" and laid there for a short time pondering the bruises to come.
My reactions are NOT as quick as when a young 'un, my road reading is far better which in traffic, sometimes gives the appearance that the reactions are 'still'......
Sadly I think sometimes 'ego' doesnt allow us to accept we are not 'as good', hence why so often boxer's carry on past their prime and risk becoming ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
If the road to hell is paved with good intentions; and a man is judged by his deeds and his actions, why say it's the thought that counts? -GrayWolf
Forum whore
you think that's creepy, i was driving along a road once and hadn't passed a car for over an hour, when i did though we passed each other in exactly the same place, creepy given that over a hundred kilometers had been travelled in that time, what are the odds of that happening?
Highway Biker
Over the years working with young guys, playing sport, coaching etc I've noticed that reaction time has nothing to do with age .. to a point, obviously, when the muscle twitch reaction time has been compromised by massive muscle reduction etc brought on by inactivity and of course we can't deny that that's part of the natural aging process. But I've seen many fit young people with pathetic reaction times.I'd completely agree with that. When a young man if I slid off my RD/GT/S1 250 etc the immediate reaction was to 'leap up' and 'cry about the bike'.. last time I had a 'off' {first one for over 20yrs} it was "Owwwwwww that fucking hurt" and laid there for a short time pondering the bruises to come.
My reactions are NOT as quick as when a young 'un, my road reading is far better which in traffic, sometimes gives the appearance that the reactions are 'still'......
Sadly I think sometimes 'ego' doesnt allow us to accept we are not 'as good', hence why so often boxer's carry on past their prime and risk becoming ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
However, if an older person in the, say, 50-65 group, stays fit with a good specific muscle building regime, and if they had a good reaction time in the first place, it can be retained.
Agility and dynamic energy is an entirely different thing and yes, we lose that as we get older and there's no way of retaining that bit
When young people have the combo of fast reactions, motivation, dynamic energy and strength ... they become the yardstick for endeavour.
What we ( the oldies) gain, however, is an advanced level of the ability to differentiate ..... probably why most older guys tend not to continue to pilot bikes at warp speed.
It's pretty obvious that if an older person wants to keep racing or riding hard then they need to be physically fit and strong. Most older guys can't be arsed working out etc so they chuck it in.
I don't know if Malcom or Wharfy were very fit but they needed to be if they were competing in such a dangerous and technical event as that hill climb, and they needed to have razor sharp reaction times.
Sadly the argument about their deaths seems to be focussing on their age, which is understandable considering the coincidences, but clearly they were simply not up to the level they needed to be for that event.
And, tbh, that's an aspect that should be addressed when entries are accepted. It's a hard call though.
Hardcore Biker
Indemnity form...
"I declare event organisers hold no liability in the event of my injury or death and i the signer hold all liability blah blah blah"
*signs on dotted line*
*twists wrist*
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead.
Hardcore Biker
........................
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead.
Hardcore Biker
I think it comes down to they need to simply understand that some sports are dangerous.
I mean lets look at how mental we are.
lets get 180+hp .... sit on top of the engine.... cuddling a tank of flammible liquid... dressed in the skin of a dead cow... trying to go as fast as we can and push our limits...
but no no oh somebody died oh regulations oh something went wrong, i agree with you its utterly absurd.
don't want to risk dying racing, don't race. I accept every time i swing my leg over my bike i may not come home... and its the exact same whether its a motorcycle a car or a bicycle.
As you said. Shit happens.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead.
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