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Thread: MotoGP 2017

  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    I don't think that's the case.
    I think Moise is right, there was an article in Asphalt and Rubber about this very thing and the Traction control and Launch control in the Aprilia RSV4 and Tuono were a lot better than what the MotoGP boys had. The other manufacturers have caught up with Aprilia now so most road bikes have better electronics. Whether the road bike ECUs are as flexible is a different matter. The MotoGP ECUs probably have more tables and parameters you can fiddle with and I guess better is pretty subjective.

  2. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmik de Bris View Post
    I think Moise is right, there was an article in Asphalt and Rubber about this very thing and the Traction control and Launch control in the Aprilia RSV4 and Tuono were a lot better than what the MotoGP boys had. The other manufacturers have caught up with Aprilia now so most road bikes have better electronics. Whether the road bike ECUs are as flexible is a different matter. The MotoGP ECUs probably have more tables and parameters you can fiddle with and I guess better is pretty subjective.
    I've got a tiny little bit of experience setting up what is the best off the shelf traction control kit on the market. What it can be set up to do is flat out too technical for the lay person to set up. It needs to know exact wheel rolling radius, gearing, and lean angle. That's the level the GP bikes have.

    What your RSV4 has from the factory is real basic.

  3. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    I've got a tiny little bit of experience setting up what is the best off the shelf traction control kit on the market. What it can be set up to do is flat out too technical for the lay person to set up. It needs to know exact wheel rolling radius, gearing, and lean angle. That's the level the GP bikes have.

    What your RSV4 has from the factory is real basic.
    Does the factory road bike stuff have any learning capabilities? IE it picks up on how a rider operates the bike and adjusts the level to suit? That wouldn't be out of the question with modern technology I guess.

    I'd imagine the MotoGP would be 100% dumb and require a lot of engineer time to map out the perfect TC configuration.

    I had a gander at a GT3 steering wheel when I was at Bathurst in Feb and all they had was basically a knob to turn increase or decrease the ABS and TC.
    I guess in a race car the TC much less sophisticated as with 4 wheels all being rammed into the ground the variables are less. Still tricky stuff no doubt but the fact that the MotoGP engineers have to dial in the perfect amount of wheelspin to turn the bike and factor in tyre drop, anti wheelie, lean angle for different corners, grip levels etc it wouldn't be easy. Hats off to the clever cunts

  4. #394
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    Helmets

    Hehe helmet but shorts and tee shirts. Typical gixxer riders




    They should learn a thing or two about pit crew helmets from F1 Petronas Mercedes team.

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    If you can make it on Kiwibiker you can make it anywhere.

  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJK View Post
    Hehe helmet but shorts and tee shirts. Typical gixxer riders
    That one won't stop too well.

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autech View Post
    Does the factory road bike stuff have any learning capabilities? IE it picks up on how a rider operates the bike and adjusts the level to suit? That wouldn't be out of the question with modern technology I guess.

    I'd imagine the MotoGP would be 100% dumb and require a lot of engineer time to map out the perfect TC configuration.

    I had a gander at a GT3 steering wheel when I was at Bathurst in Feb and all they had was basically a knob to turn increase or decrease the ABS and TC.
    I guess in a race car the TC much less sophisticated as with 4 wheels all being rammed into the ground the variables are less. Still tricky stuff no doubt but the fact that the MotoGP engineers have to dial in the perfect amount of wheelspin to turn the bike and factor in tyre drop, anti wheelie, lean angle for different corners, grip levels etc it wouldn't be easy. Hats off to the clever cunts
    Once the bike is unplugged from the laptop, it's completely dumb on the one Chop had. You can increase or decrease how much slide it has with a dial, that's it.

    On the lappy though, you can create a 'curve' you like for lean/throttle percentages. It's fucking serious shit.

    I was testing the bikes for him. He says before I go out to test the Micheal Dunlop bike. "You need to make sure the TC works. So ya need it to cut in when you're leaned over, then 'pin it'"!

    The Dunlop bike had Bazzaz TC which had no wheel sensors. I struggled to get that working. Chops bike had this other system. Fucking magic!

  7. #397
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    Because lol

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    If you can make it on Kiwibiker you can make it anywhere.

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    Once the bike is unplugged from the laptop, it's completely dumb on the one Chop had. You can increase or decrease how much slide it has with a dial, that's it.

    On the lappy though, you can create a 'curve' you like for lean/throttle percentages. It's fucking serious shit.

    I was testing the bikes for him. He says before I go out to test the Micheal Dunlop bike. "You need to make sure the TC works. So ya need it to cut in when you're leaned over, then 'pin it'"!

    The Dunlop bike had Bazzaz TC which had no wheel sensors. I struggled to get that working. Chops bike had this other system. Fucking magic!
    OK, I'm about to do a u turn and say that Moise was spot on with his comments on the ECU and I was wrong.
    Believe it or not, my friend Mark Barnett ( who some may remember from here in 1980s era) just strolled into my workshop office as I was reading Drews last post.
    Mark is on Pol Espargos KTM team and is home from Dubai for a few days before heading off to Argentina on Sunday.
    I asked him about the ECU's and the fact that some guys are saying that some of the latest liter bikes have more advanced ECU's than MotoGP bikes.
    His answer was that in many respects that was correct. The Magneti Marelli ECU's are far less advanced than the Honda units they were using ( when he was with Honda pre 2015 ) and when Honda received them back then they were shocked at how primitive they were.
    Yamaha, Honda etc are not impressed with the fact that their road bikes have a better ECU than their GP bike and that they are essentially developing someone else's product. The teams are all struggling with the ECU's.
    They are supposed to be partially locked units but of course the nerds in those teams can easily get into them.

    So whilst Chops bike has a magic ECU unit it seems the GP bikes definitely don't. And FWIW, the Moto 2 bikes have a totally locked ECU.

    He also spoke about Maverik Vinales. He's highly regarded in the paddock because he's able to give very astute feedback, can set up his bike well and delivers. It's no fluke he's at the pointy end.
    On KTM, they're just rapt they finished. They've actually made amazing progress, 13 months ago all they had was a concept on paper. The challenges ahead are huge and one will be keeping Pol happy. He's a bubbly, enthusiastic and competitive kid (of course) and finishing 30 seconds behind the leaders won't keep him satisfied for long.

  9. #399
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    Well there ya go. I would have sworn the GP bikes had a similar TC program to what is available off the shelf.

    I always thought that box on the tail in front of the camera was the gyro for it too.

    Learn something every day. My bad.

  10. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJK View Post
    Because lol

    Well, to be accurate it was Zarco or Folger who was actually riding his old bike. Not that a fact like that will cheer him up much anyway?
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

  11. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreama View Post
    OK, I'm about to do a u turn and say that Moise was spot on with his comments on the ECU and I was wrong.
    Believe it or not, my friend Mark Barnett ( who some may remember from here in 1980s era) just strolled into my workshop office as I was reading Drews last post.
    Mark is on Pol Espargos KTM team and is home from Dubai for a few days before heading off to Argentina on Sunday.
    I asked him about the ECU's and the fact that some guys are saying that some of the latest liter bikes have more advanced ECU's than MotoGP bikes.
    His answer was that in many respects that was correct. The Magneti Marelli ECU's are far less advanced than the Honda units they were using ( when he was with Honda pre 2015 ) and when Honda received them back then they were shocked at how primitive they were.
    Yamaha, Honda etc are not impressed with the fact that their road bikes have a better ECU than their GP bike and that they are essentially developing someone else's product. The teams are all struggling with the ECU's.
    They are supposed to be partially locked units but of course the nerds in those teams can easily get into them.

    So whilst Chops bike has a magic ECU unit it seems the GP bikes definitely don't. And FWIW, the Moto 2 bikes have a totally locked ECU.

    He also spoke about Maverik Vinales. He's highly regarded in the paddock because he's able to give very astute feedback, can set up his bike well and delivers. It's no fluke he's at the pointy end.
    On KTM, they're just rapt they finished. They've actually made amazing progress, 13 months ago all they had was a concept on paper. The challenges ahead are huge and one will be keeping Pol happy. He's a bubbly, enthusiastic and competitive kid (of course) and finishing 30 seconds behind the leaders won't keep him satisfied for long.
    Thanks for that. It would seem KTM have picked the right riders because Smith too has a reputation for being very methodical and giving good feedback.
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreama View Post
    OK, I'm about to do a u turn and say that Moise was spot on with his comments on the ECU and I was wrong.
    Believe it or not, my friend Mark Barnett ( who some may remember from here in 1980s era) just strolled into my workshop office as I was reading Drews last post.
    Mark is on Pol Espargos KTM team and is home from Dubai for a few days before heading off to Argentina on Sunday.
    I asked him about the ECU's and the fact that some guys are saying that some of the latest liter bikes have more advanced ECU's than MotoGP bikes.
    His answer was that in many respects that was correct. The Magneti Marelli ECU's are far less advanced than the Honda units they were using ( when he was with Honda pre 2015 ) and when Honda received them back then they were shocked at how primitive they were.
    Yamaha, Honda etc are not impressed with the fact that their road bikes have a better ECU than their GP bike and that they are essentially developing someone else's product. The teams are all struggling with the ECU's.
    They are supposed to be partially locked units but of course the nerds in those teams can easily get into them.

    So whilst Chops bike has a magic ECU unit it seems the GP bikes definitely don't. And FWIW, the Moto 2 bikes have a totally locked ECU.

    He also spoke about Maverik Vinales. He's highly regarded in the paddock because he's able to give very astute feedback, can set up his bike well and delivers. It's no fluke he's at the pointy end.
    On KTM, they're just rapt they finished. They've actually made amazing progress, 13 months ago all they had was a concept on paper. The challenges ahead are huge and one will be keeping Pol happy. He's a bubbly, enthusiastic and competitive kid (of course) and finishing 30 seconds behind the leaders won't keep him satisfied for long.
    Legend!

    Lets face it if you were asked which country you would go to get wizz bang electronics it would not be Italy...

    It's made the racing fucking good though so bring it on and go KTM, their moto2 effort was good so lets see the GP step it up, I checked their lap analysis today and it wasn't too bad the kept a steady pace throughout the race, just wasn't fast enough. They'll be beating tito in no time.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by pritch View Post
    Thanks for that. It would seem KTM have picked the right riders because Smith too has a reputation for being very methodical and giving good feedback.
    The direct comment I received about Smith was ' ... he has an engineering background so he provides us with lot's of feedback. A lot of it is wrong and it sends him/us down the wrong path'
    Just saying what I was told by someone at the coal face.
    There could be multiple interpretations to that but Mark's pretty astute.

    Guys he worked with,
    Doohan " Took him years to get the setup perfect for him and he had a memory like an elephant"
    Hayden " Did hundreds of laps in testing and told us nothing. Couldn't set a bike up to save himself"
    Pedrosa " His bike setup is very user friendly"
    On HRC ... "they are very respectful of their world champions. If that rider wants square wheels for next year ...." (that was a reference to the post Nicky Hayden Honda I think)
    On KTM ... "they're very German like in their thinking. Extreme attention to detail and they can easily lose track of the goal. That's why they employed us ( meaning him and the Kiwi crewhief, Paul Tred..something), to keep them grounded. They come up with all these fancy designs and we just say 'that won't fuckin work' ... "

  14. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreama View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pritch View Post
    Thanks for that. It would seem KTM have picked the right riders because Smith too has a reputation for being very methodical and giving good feedback.
    The direct comment I received about Smith was ' ... he has an engineering background so he provides us with lot's of feedback. A lot of it is wrong and it sends him/us down the wrong path'
    Just saying what I was told by someone at the coal face.
    There could be multiple interpretations to that but Mark's pretty astute.
    Now that's interesting. I always he Bradders was in intelligent, very articulate guy that could talk to the engineers. But it sounds like he overthinks things and that's making his feedback skewed so the set up goes in the wrong direction.

    I can relate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreama View Post
    Guys he worked with,
    Doohan " Took him years to get the setup perfect for him and he had a memory like an elephant"
    Hayden " Did hundreds of laps in testing and told us nothing. Couldn't set a bike up to save himself"
    Pedrosa " His bike setup is very user friendly"
    On HRC ... "they are very respectful of their world champions. If that rider wants square wheels for next year ...." (that was a reference to the post Nicky Hayden Honda I think)
    On KTM ... "they're very German like in their thinking. Extreme attention to detail and they can easily lose track of the goal. That's why they employed us ( meaning him and the Kiwi crewhief, Paul Tred..something), to keep them grounded. They come up with all these fancy designs and we just say 'that won't fuckin work' ... "
    Now that's cool. Thanks for that. Interesting though, when Pedrosa was driving development the bike wasn't very good. I'm not surprised about Hayden though. He's happiest going sideways to the left so that tells you something about how he'll want a bike.
    Zen wisdom: No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. - obviously had KB in mind when he came up with that gem

    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity

  15. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    I've got a tiny little bit of experience setting up what is the best off the shelf traction control kit on the market. What it can be set up to do is flat out too technical for the lay person to set up. It needs to know exact wheel rolling radius, gearing, and lean angle. That's the level the GP bikes have.

    What your RSV4 has from the factory is real basic.
    It also depends on what sensors are fitted. Are the GP bikes allowed any IMU they like? I think that they are regulated too. If they do not have enough axis they are limited on the amount of control they have. The RSV4 is far from basic, when introduced in 2015 it was pretty much the best you could get.

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