MotoGP 2017

[pritch]

The plan was that Moto2 would produce all sorts of wonderful frame and suspension solutions but the team managers didn't want to scare the sponsors away with radical concepts. So now we have almost everybody using the same frame and suspension. Great for Kalex and Ohlins if disappointing for everybody else.

Have now read the background to the KTM outburst. This originated in Moto 3 which Honda were treating as a Honda Cup. When KTM got competitive they accused Honda of exceeding the stipulated rev limit, this was investigated but no action was taken. The following year Honda entered a full factory team. There is definite bad blood.

[Crasherfromwayback]

No racers are willing to put in the time and take the hit in their reslts to develop them properly. Same for those with the money to develop them. Same for the manufacturers.

Motorcyclists are not mainstream types but they're incredibly conservative, preferring to go with what's winning now instead of what would be winning in the future.

Forks have had bllions and billions of hours poured into them, both on the track and road. Other front ends barely get out of the hundreds of hours.

To be honest mate...I think you're kidding yourself. If the factories thought there was 1/4 sec a lap improvement with something no one else had...they'd be testing the fuck out of them.

[roogazza]

To be honest mate...I think you're kidding yourself. If the factories thought there was 1/4 sec a lap improvement with something no one else had...they'd be testing the fuck out of them.

yeah, I'm sure they'd be all over anything that gave 1\4 sec !

[Mental Trousers]

To be honest mate...I think you're kidding yourself. If the factories thought there was 1/4 sec a lap improvement with something no one else had...they'd be testing the fuck out of them.

End of the day the bike manufacturers are about making money. They go racing because it contributes to making them money. The vast majority of motorbike riders think forks are the shizz and refuse to believe that there's something a lot better so there's no profit in a 5+ year development program that costs billions.

Look at how long it's taken Suzuki to get back to near the front of MotoGP using well known beam frames with forks. Now try doing the same thing with something nobody has any research on. There's not a single rider in World Championships that's willing to struggle for years while a new front end/frame is sorted out.

Look at what happened at Ducati. They developed a far superior bike that didn't have a frame. They won a championship with it. But they had to give up on it instead of developing it to the same degree as twin beam/forks. There was a lot left in that design but it was taking way too long to understand and there was a huge amount of arrogance, lack of communication and ego that was getting in the way of developing it properly. In the end the damage to the reputation and the amount of money being poured into it made them change to the same as everyone else.

If it was easy forks would've been replaced a long time ago. But so far the accountants have had the last say.

[Crasherfromwayback]

If it was easy forks would've been replaced a long time ago. But so far the accountants have had the last say.

Can't agree with that sorry. How many millions was spend on the ELF Hondas? How did that work out for them?

[Autech]

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/240...p-for-ktm.html

Fark me that's a strong team. Binder, Olivera on a KTM being run by Aki Ajo... Moto2 might just be worth watching this year with KTM in the mix.

[Mental Trousers]

Can't agree with that sorry. How many millions was spend on the ELF Hondas? How did that work out for them?

Not enough. As I said, it will take many years and billions of dollars to tweak any alternative design to the same level as forks.

However the big problem with the Elf bikes was the designer was a car guy (Andre De Cortanze) who was trying to approach designing bikes the same way as designing cars, which was to minimize weight transfer. He failed to understand that bikes are fundamentally different to cars and require weight transfer to work correctly. Another big problem was they kept trying many different technologies instead of just developing a new chassis + front end. They tried carbon fibre chassis, a crazy steering system and other way out stuff. But in the end reliability was the biggest problem with Ron Haslam only getting a very months of reliable running at the end of the 3 years, nowhere near enough time to make something a winner.

[EJK]

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/240...p-for-ktm.html

Fark me that's a strong team. Binder, Olivera on a KTM being run by Aki Ajo... Moto2 might just be worth watching this year with KTM in the mix.

KTM must be swimming in a pool full of money.

[Mental Trousers]

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/240...p-for-ktm.html

Fark me that's a strong team. Binder, Olivera on a KTM being run by Aki Ajo... Moto2 might just be worth watching this year with KTM in the mix.

KTM must be swimming in a pool full of money.

Looks like a recipe for winning to me. Hopefully they'll figure out a way to make the trellis frames give consistent feel and behaviour in MotoGP and carry success right through to the top.

[Autech]

KTM must be swimming in a pool full of money.

Keep
Talking
Money.

They've had great success in Moto3 so why not have a crack at the big leagues?
I think they may hope that if they can stick it to the Jap brands in road racing their slice in the road bike sales market may increase.

I mean when you think about it if I said I was about to buy myself a new sports bike, your brain would most likely go:
Jap brands in various order
Ducati
Aprilia
Triumph
BMW (S1000r has sure had a big impact)
Then KTM somewhere down the bottom.

They're not exactly a big player in riders minds so investment in racing may just boost that side of their business somewhat.

Either that or I'm full of shit and they just want to go out racing!

[bogan]

Not enough. As I said, it will take many years and billions of dollars to tweak any alternative design to the same level as forks.

However the big problem with the Elf bikes was the designer was a car guy (Andre De Cortanze) who was trying to approach designing bikes the same way as designing cars, which was to minimize weight transfer. He failed to understand that bikes are fundamentally different to cars and require weight transfer to work correctly. Another big problem was they kept trying many different technologies instead of just developing a new chassis + front end. They tried carbon fibre chassis, a crazy steering system and other way out stuff. But in the end reliability was the biggest problem with Ron Haslam only getting a very months of reliable running at the end of the 3 years, nowhere near enough time to make something a winner.

Wasn't Tesi or whoever it was trying to throw one of them bikes with the front swingarm into the mix a while back? I seem to recal one of the test rider's comments something along the lines of that it'd be fucking quick if he'd learnt to ride on it, but felt he couldn't shake the instinct and need to feel weight transfer with forks to really push it into corners.

[Mental Trousers]

Wasn't Tesi or whoever it was trying to throw one of them bikes with the front swingarm into the mix a while back? I seem to recal one of the test rider's comments something along the lines of that it'd be fucking quick if he'd learnt to ride on it, but felt he couldn't shake the instinct and need to feel weight transfer with forks to really push it into corners.

The Bimota Tesi? I've seen reviews that are along those lines eg they're braking as late and as hard as possible and the Bimota test rider goes another 20m past them.

Most funny front ends are designed to separate out the various forces and can vary the amount of dive under brakes. The lack of dive is one of the biggest barriers to rider acceptance as every rider is used to diving under brakes and no dive triggers survival instincts, eg no dive = OMG OMG I'M GONNA DIE.

[Dave-]

Imagine if BMW got into MotoGP

[pritch]

JL has apparently said that he could win at Qatar - if the Ducati had wings. I respectfully suggest he contacts Red Bull urgent like.

http://www.bikesportnews.com/news/ne...r-says-lorenzo

[Autech]

JL has apparently said that he could win at Qatar - if the Ducati had wings. I respectfully suggest he contacts Red Bull urgent like.

http://www.bikesportnews.com/news/ne...r-says-lorenzo

Honestly I will be surprised if he or Dovi does not win at Qatar. Time will tell though and of course as always my heart is behind Dani, so that cunt better win it.