Human microchip

[Katman]

This is NOT stored on the RFID.

You really struggle with imagining any further than 10 minutes into the future, don't you?

[mashman]

When we was exploring the idea behind bluetooth and helping people get around shops n stuff, we hit upon a small stumbling block. The bluetooth receivers for passing instructions to devices etc... was only 5m. You could get receivers with better ranges, but they were more expensive and you could virtually get more receivers at the same cost for distance as the more expensive ones. All ya need is strategically placed short range receivers, like at a payment facility f'rinstance, and it's job done.

[TheDemonLord]

You really struggle with imagining any further than 10 minutes into the future, don't you?

Le Sigh.

"There is a technology, which will turn the world into 1984!"
"Errrr - no that's not how it works, it can't work like that"
"WELL IT COULD DO IN THE FUTURE WHEN THE TECHNOLOGY ADVANCES ENOUGH"

I would ask if you see the Hypocrisy and Idiocy in those statements, but from experience I'd bet you won't.

[Katman]

"There is a technology, which will turn the world into 1984!"
"Errrr - no that's not how it works, it can't work like that"
"WELL IT COULD DO IN THE FUTURE WHEN THE TECHNOLOGY ADVANCES ENOUGH"

And you don't think that's where this technology is taking us?

You even gave us one of your 10 minute predictions here.....

Well - an RFID typically only carries up to 2Kb of Data (which is 4096 characters worth of data) - there are plans for 4 Kb and 8 Kb RFIDs (which translates to 8192 and 16384 characters worth of data)

Too many vaccines appear to have rotted your brain.

[TheDemonLord]

And you don't think that's where this technology is taking us?

No, I don't.

If it does manifest, the most likely method of implimentation will be opt-in, with your RFID holding your unique identifier and your private key.

You even gave us one of your 10 minute predictions here.....

Too many vaccines appear to have rotted your brain.

It's cute that you think all your data could be stored on 8kb.

Although it appears in your case, all of your brain could be stored on an existing RFID chip...

Once you tally up ALL private data for an individual (including histories, notes, changes etc.) the data size becomes surprisingly large - several thousand times larger than 8 Kb. This leads to 2 interesting problems:

1: the RFID chip has to increase in size or increase its storage density to accomodate this change, whilst not impossible, but to get to the data sizes we are talking about, assuming a doubling of capacity every 6 months is approx 5-6 years away.
2: Throughput of data - transferring a 20 MB file across a modern 10 GbE/s network - barely takes a 0.02 s, transferring a 20 MB file across a Wireless N LAN 500 Mb/s) - About a second. Transferring a 20 MB file on an old 100 Mb/s Ethernet network - assuming no bottlenecks - around 2-3 seconds - you get the point - Data Rates for RFIDs from what I've read - some have a burst speed up to 128 Mb/s but this is limited to 1248 bits per burst (which is about 156 Bytes - which may cause issues) others had Data Rates in the 1 Mb/s and others down as low as 40-80 Kb/s - which would take minutes to transfer 20 MB of data.

Holding all the data on the Chip currently is unfeasible - whereas holding a UID and even a 4096 bit encryption key - very feasible - which leads to the point:

If the tech was to be implemented (as it is currently) it would be as I've indicated. Once the infrastructure and systems are designed with this method of operation in mind, it is unlikely that we would see a move to having all the data stored on the RFID itself.

[Jeff Sichoe]

No, I don't.

If it does manifest, the most likely method of implimentation will be opt-in, with your RFID holding your unique identifier and your private key.



It's cute that you think all your data could be stored on 8kb.

Although it appears in your case, all of your brain could be stored on an existing RFID chip...

Once you tally up ALL private data for an individual (including histories, notes, changes etc.) the data size becomes surprisingly large - several thousand times larger than 8 Kb. This leads to 2 interesting problems:

1: the RFID chip has to increase in size or increase its storage density to accomodate this change, whilst not impossible, but to get to the data sizes we are talking about, assuming a doubling of capacity every 6 months is approx 5-6 years away.
2: Throughput of data - transferring a 20 MB file across a modern 10 GbE/s network - barely takes a 0.02 s, transferring a 20 MB file across a Wireless N LAN 500 Mb/s) - About a second. Transferring a 20 MB file on an old 100 Mb/s Ethernet network - assuming no bottlenecks - around 2-3 seconds - you get the point - Data Rates for RFIDs from what I've read - some have a burst speed up to 128 Mb/s but this is limited to 1248 bits per burst (which is about 156 Bytes - which may cause issues) others had Data Rates in the 1 Mb/s and others down as low as 40-80 Kb/s - which would take minutes to transfer 20 MB of data.

Holding all the data on the Chip currently is unfeasible - whereas holding a UID and even a 4096 bit encryption key - very feasible - which leads to the point:

If the tech was to be implemented (as it is currently) it would be as I've indicated. Once the infrastructure and systems are designed with this method of operation in mind, it is unlikely that we would see a move to having all the data stored on the RFID itself.

Bro what are you even talking about?

Lets say I have a RFID chip in my ass which holds a unique identifier which WITHOUT holding personal information allows tracking of movement and purchases.

Sure, they don't know that 11223 = Jeff Sichoe, but they do know that 11223 like porn and bikes and hamburgers and bourbon and where I ride and how I get to work and back and roughly how long I spend at a location and roughly what I might be doing there (personal, shopping, work, sleep, hooker etc)

Now it doesn't take a great leap to assume that once you have found out that 11223 = Jeff Sichoe (from other means) you pair the two and boom you're off.

Saying 'no no no they wouldn't do THAT' is so naive it's not funny.

https://www.google.com/maps/timeline

add that to your debit card purchase history and some jerk at Police HQ will be able to pull up your location and what you are doing (and probably sync CCTV to your facial features pulled from your drivers license) and watch you walk around picking your nose.

The only way to really fight this sort of surveillance in NZ is to cut the budget for the Police so they literally can't afford the investment. Facebook or Google will probably step up with some 'solution' which they can claim a tax-rebate for implementing.

[pritch]

I had never come across YourNewsWire and having now had a good look at it that's fine with me. Some of the stories are genuine, if a little late, some are dubious.
It's highly likely I spend more time reading news than most but I won't be wasting my time on that.

Similarly Dr Oz was new to me but I'm fine with that, I don't follow Oprah. Although a doctor, he apparently has a reputation for pushing pseudo science.

This thread could be summed up as. "Nothing to see here, move along."

[Katman]

Bro what are you even talking about?

Go easy on him - he's autistic.

[Katman]

This thread could be summed up as. "Nothing to see here, move along."

And what about if they were leading us towards mandatory micro-chipping?

[TheDemonLord]

Bro what are you even talking about?

Lets say I have a RFID chip in my ass which holds a unique identifier which WITHOUT holding personal information allows tracking of movement and purchases.

Sure, they don't know that 11223 = Jeff Sichoe, but they do know that 11223 like porn and bikes and hamburgers and bourbon and where I ride and how I get to work and back and roughly how long I spend at a location and roughly what I might be doing there (personal, shopping, work, sleep, hooker etc)

Now it doesn't take a great leap to assume that once you have found out that 11223 = Jeff Sichoe (from other means) you pair the two and boom you're off.

Saying 'no no no they wouldn't do THAT' is so naive it's not funny.

https://www.google.com/maps/timeline

add that to your debit card purchase history and some jerk at Police HQ will be able to pull up your location and what you are doing (and probably sync CCTV to your facial features pulled from your drivers license) and watch you walk around picking your nose.

The only way to really fight this sort of surveillance in NZ is to cut the budget for the Police so they literally can't afford the investment. Facebook or Google will probably step up with some 'solution' which they can claim a tax-rebate for implementing.

It's almost like I've already addressed this:

Could RFIDs be used for mass surveillance - depends on what you mean by surveillance - As Bogan correctly pointed out, these devices are very short range, as such have limitations. In terms of using them like an AT HOP card - they could be used to build up locations of where the RFID had been scanned, and then from analysing that Metadata, identify patterns etc. However this is not the 1984-esque scenario painted by the Tinfoil hat wearing site that you posted up.

Edit:

To address some of your other concerns - currently Financial records require a search warrant to obtain (although I did read an article from last year about NZ Police successfully bypassing this requirement, thanks in part to overly compliant companies)

The solution isn't to cut funding - it's to have very clear and well defined boundries. Problem is that the Law is often 20-30 years out of date with Technology and that the speed of implementation of new Tech vs the time it takes for a bunch of Lawyers to:

a: Learn about it
b: Form an initial legal opinion about it based on current statutes
c: Argue the pros and cons of additional statutes or amendments that should/could be made
d: Turn this into a bill before Parliment
e: Parliment to piss-arse around with it
etc. etc. etc.

(you get the point)

[pritch]

And what about if they were leading us towards mandatory micro-chipping?

It isn't beyond the realms of possibility but at this stage it's more science fiction than science. So while it may happen one day, it won't be in my lifetime and probably not yours.

[Katman]

It isn't beyond the realms of possibility but at this stage it's more science fiction than science. So while it may happen one day, it won't be in my lifetime and probably not yours.

And you don't give a fuck about what sort of society you leave behind?

[TheDemonLord]

Go easy on him - he's autistic.

Still rather be Autistic than a brain dead paranoid delusional anti-semetic conspiracy nutter.

[TheDemonLord]

And you don't give a fuck about what sort of society you leave behind?

Quite the contrary - by sticking to rational and reasonable discussion instead of:

"ZOMG THE GUBBERMINT IS OUT TO GET US!"

It helps leave behind a society that isn't full of gullible delusional nitwits.

[Akzle]

The only way to really fight this sort of surveillance in NZ is to cut the budget for the Police so they literally can't afford the investment. Facebook or Google will probably step up with some 'solution' which they can claim a tax-rebate for implementing.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahah....

google don't pay tax you silly cunt.

also. nevermind the police, it's the dark shadowy figuires you have to worry about.

The solution isn't to cut funding - it's to have very clear and well defined boundries. Problem is that the Law is often 20-30 years out of date with Technology and that the speed of implementation of new Tech vs the time it takes for a bunch of Lawyers to:

a: Learn about it
b: Form an initial legal opinion about it based on current statutes
c: Argue the pros and cons of additional statutes or amendments that should/could be made
d: Turn this into a bill before Parliment
e: Parliment to piss-arse around with it
etc. etc. etc.

(you get the point)

so what your saying, is that the system is a crock of shit and we should kill all the jews....