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Thread: Best leaning technique - on/off road

  1. #1
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    Best leaning technique - on/off road

    Until recently all of my bikes were sport with street tyres, so I was used to leaning into curves and quite comfortable with a deep lean and a knee bent down.

    Now I'm on a DR650 and I'm confused about the best way to deal with twisties - both on and off road. When I'm doing mountain passes here with minor visibility ahead I tend to push the bike down but keep my body upright, and I actually lean on the outside of the curve so that I can see around the corner a little further. I've also been watching offroad training videos and apparently I should be shifting my bodyweight to the OUTSIDE of the curve and a little forward towards the front tyre when on dirt/gravel. But is it the opposite for roads - should I be leaning to the INSIDE of the curve rather than the outside (like I've always done on my sport bikes)?

    Until I hopped on the DR I was quite comfortable with the twisties but now every time I hit a corner I find myself torn between leaning inside and leaning outside. How do you guys prefer to take corners (both on and off road)?

    Cheers,
    Ryan

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micheken View Post
    Until I hopped on the DR I was quite comfortable with the twisties but now every time I hit a corner I find myself torn between leaning inside and leaning outside. How do you guys prefer to take corners (both on and off road)?

    Cheers,
    Ryan
    I generally shift myself into the lean "kissing the mirror" so to speak, as I was taught that shifting bodyweight in reduces the need for lean angle.

    *on road + street bike

  3. #3
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    Yup, you got it, cornering on dirt roads is opposite to street. Leaning away and forward pushes weight down and makes the knobby tyre work better. Don't touch the front break of course, there are a couple other tricks you can adapt as well like dragging the rear break and using speed to keep the bike settled.
    Get used to the bike shifting around underneath you, don't hold the bars too tight and relax your shoulders.
    The DR is not too heavy, but switching the brain over and moving your body a bit can be a work out.

    Where abouts are you in the county?


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  4. #4
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    i found the same conundra going from paddock to street, always more inclined to put my foot forward than my knee domn. and my mates were surprised just how far i cold throw their bikes....

    but yae. i've generally come to learn that sprotty= weight under the centreline of bike, dirty=weight topside of the centreline and throw the cunt around under you.

    no idea about motarding it, but im pretty sure dirty physics apply.

  5. #5
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    I had a good gravel blat on my TDM last week. It's big, heavy and wears T30's. The only way through a corner on gravel is with throttle on so I keep my weight outside the centre line and load the outside footrest to give me control when the rear starts to lose grip. When it starts to slip I put more weight outside to compensate and maintain control. The rear wheel should be dictating where the bike goes, loading the front with no throttle through a corner can get scary quickly, letting the rear wiggle about is fun and keeps the plot together. I get my butt off the seat, too, letting my legs act as suspension and allowing the bike to move around rather than the bike moving me if I'm sat there like a pudding. I guess the idea is to keep the bike upright so somehow you have to compensate for the lack of lean which is where rear wheel steering comes in.
    I'm not talking lurid, full lock, full power slides just a wee bit of spin here and there to help the bike get through tighter corners.

    Yeah, opposite on the road. Head and shoulder dropped into the corner which can slightly lessen the lean for a given speed.

    Bit of an art to riding at pace on gravel. I've been riding off road a lot through the winter, usually super slippy clay. What I've learned translates straight to the big bike on gravel, felt great last week, I'm usually a bit puckered up but felt very relaxed for a change.
    Oh, use cambers and depressions, wheel ruts etc to help on gravel. They increase grip or minimise the unexpected slide like wee berms. Use off camber to initiate a wee slide or go slower.
    Manopausal.

  6. #6
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    Your game.




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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by george formby View Post
    I had a good gravel blat on my TDM last week. It's big, heavy and wears T30's. The only way through a corner on gravel is with throttle on so I keep my weight outside the centre line and load the outside footrest to give me control when the rear starts to lose grip. When it starts to slip I put more weight outside to compensate and maintain control. The rear wheel should be dictating where the bike goes, loading the front with no throttle through a corner can get scary quickly, letting the rear wiggle about is fun and keeps the plot together. I get my butt off the seat, too, letting my legs act as suspension and allowing the bike to move around rather than the bike moving me if I'm sat there like a pudding. I guess the idea is to keep the bike upright so somehow you have to compensate for the lack of lean which is where rear wheel steering comes in.
    I'm not talking lurid, full lock, full power slides just a wee bit of spin here and there to help the bike get through tighter corners.

    Yeah, opposite on the road. Head and shoulder dropped into the corner which can slightly lessen the lean for a given speed.

    Bit of an art to riding at pace on gravel. I've been riding off road a lot through the winter, usually super slippy clay. What I've learned translates straight to the big bike on gravel, felt great last week, I'm usually a bit puckered up but felt very relaxed for a change.
    Oh, use cambers and depressions, wheel ruts etc to help on gravel. They increase grip or minimise the unexpected slide like wee berms. Use off camber to initiate a wee slide or go slower.
    Funnily enough I don't even notice the transition from road to not. Well, just sometimes the other way around, on the road I notice that I feel a tad... insecure going into a corner at what I'd normally feel was a reasonable speed. When I ask myself what the body's doing I find I've slipped back into dirt mode, which fucks things up a bit. Couple of well chosen special words of encouragement and a re-focus on eye and upper body positioning usually fixes it.

    I can report that the traction control on the SDR is fucking useless at managing the back end on the south's best gravel, best turned off. Very little works well with the amount of smooth surface area the 17/190's got, there's just too many marbles underfoot. Even so, as you say, steering with the throttle is the key, in fact corners aren't much of a worry, it's the fucking front weaving from side to side in a straight line any time you're not on the gas that's the worry.

    PS: after 3600k of wet touring my nice new S21 is toast. Sides are pristine but there's a 2" flat in the middle.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Funnily enough I don't even notice the transition from road to not. Well, just sometimes the other way around, on the road I notice that I feel a tad... insecure going into a corner at what I'd normally feel was a reasonable speed. When I ask myself what the body's doing I find I've slipped back into dirt mode, which fucks things up a bit. Couple of well chosen special words of encouragement and a re-focus on eye and upper body positioning usually fixes it.
    Same here


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saarg View Post
    Where abouts are you in the county?
    I'm in Omakau - about 90 mins from Queenstown. There seem to be lots of good offroad tracks nearby.

  10. #10
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    Thanks everyone - I'll keep these comments in mind next time I'm out there...on, or off road. I was just out on the highway, and for whatever reason it still feels comfortable to simply push the DR into the curve and keep my body upright rather than leaning - must be something about the upright riding position and how light the bike is that's making me feel that way, since on the sport bikes I'd always naturally lean in and want to drop my knee and elbow.

    Cheers,
    Ryan

  11. #11
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    I suspect you're not leaning the bike as much as you think you are.

    As above, I've learnt to get weight forward to get the front to point, and fortunately started riding on dirt so am used to the bike moving around a bit, as long as it's going where you want it to just ride it out. You can also steer it with a bit of throttle if required.

    Or alternatively, just do what feels right for the bike.
    Riding cheap crappy old bikes badly since 1987

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micheken View Post
    Thanks everyone - I'll keep these comments in mind next time I'm out there...on, or off road. I was just out on the highway, and for whatever reason it still feels comfortable to simply push the DR into the curve and keep my body upright rather than leaning - must be something about the upright riding position and how light the bike is that's making me feel that way, since on the sport bikes I'd always naturally lean in and want to drop my knee and elbow.

    Cheers,
    Ryan
    I rode like that for a long time, most of my bikes having some hint of off road aptitude. I've never owned a proper sprot bike.

    For years my road riding could be summed as me sitting upright with the bike leaning underneath me. Never really had an issue and always had chicken strips... I've embraced dropping my head and shoulder into a corner and if I'm pressing on I may occasionally pivot round the tank a tad to load the front and stay inside the bike. It works on trailies on the road, less lean, more grip, happier hooligan..
    The 21" front on my wee DT 230 can feel a bit vague going into a corner unless I get well forward and inside, soft suspension and tic tac contact patch.

    Try your road stylee on the trailie and see what feels the best. It does not immediately feel natural!

    As has been said, I don't usually bother slowing down when tar turns to gravel, unless it's a corner, but my brain immediately switches over and I'm ready to move more on the bike. Where you put your body weight is paramount IMHO.

    And as mentioned, the front on my TDM (18") will whip the bars if I screw up. Counter intuitive but a big handful and sticking my nuts on the clocks usually chills it out. In deep gravel both ends can whip at once, but not in unison, it feels like the bike has a ball joint in the middle. I'm still figuring out a better technique than tightening my sphincter and gritting my teeth to fix that situation.
    Manopausal.

  13. #13
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    Nothing wrong with what you're doing.

    I find myself on my RSV Tuono that pushing the outside knee into the tank and pushing the bike into the corner works really well, but my Tuono is set up a lot like a dirt bike, with Renthal Fat bars, and I have fucked knees so it's not so easy for me to get the knee down. I can't be pushing the bike too far over, as there's about 3mm chicken strips on the rear and 1cm at the front and I run a S21 front/T30 evo rear combo and don't ride that slow. It's called a lean-out turn and its the primary technique for turning the bike in a tight circle at slow speeds. It's also the riding style the New Zealand Police utilise for their riding and those guys are not slow.

    Hanging off the bike on the road is over-rated anyway. If you truly need to you're going way too fast and you're probably using all the road to do so.
    And I to my motorcycle parked like the soul of the junkyard. Restored, a bicycle fleshed with power, and tore off. Up Highway 106 continually drunk on the wind in my mouth. Wringing the handlebar for speed, wild to be wreckage forever.

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  14. #14
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    balls on the tank, weight on the outside foot peg/leg (opposite leg can basically be OFF it's peg and ready to put down if you need to stop a slip) be prepared to counter steer (keep pointing front wheel where you want to go, the back will sort itself out). if you do start sliding, GIVE IT SOME THROTTLE

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