Feminists going full retard.

[bogan]

I'm saying that anyone who doesn't do anything related to Feminism isn't a Feminist. It's really simple - you are trying to claim (with no evidence mind) that there is the vast group of Feminists who represent the Majority who don't actually do anything related to Modern Feminism.

I'm not ignoring anyone who doesn't want more than Equality - I'm saying the current majority in Feminism says they want equality, but by their belief in disproven theories (which are still actively disseminated by both Popular and Academic Feminists as truth) they end up acting for inequality.

If you've got some proof of this silent majority - then by all means post it up, until then - I met your burden of proof.



How are they Fake? This was a survey done by Feminists, for Feminists - if anything, it is biased in favour of the Feminist viewpoint - and yet it still shows 90% believing in something that factually is not true. This is not a Strawman, this is Feminists hanging themselves by their own rope.



'Bias' formed by investigating what was being generated by Academic Feminism - it's like saying that you are biased against Pedophilia because you know what Pedos do....



Completely wrong - the 18% stat is for WOMEN who identify as Feminist - a quick goggle shows that in the US, there are about 115 Million Adult women, so 18% is about 23 million (so your figure of 100 mil is out by a factor of 4). The problem however is that the organization I cited is the BIGGEST feminist organisation in the US - and they demonstrate clear discrimination against Men and Fathers.

You are trying to claim that they are a minority, as if they are akin to the Westboro baptist church, when in fact they are more like the Vatican (since they are the biggest Feminist organization and all)



You clearly missed the point - which was that you don't have any solid data for that claim



The comment was made against women - who I think are capable of dismissing it as poorly thought out, whereas you are insinuating that comments like that will set them back.



Well, for starters - we are both assuming what the the Chancellor was actually meaning - From my perspective, it sounds like he is talking about the fact that on average women will seek less work hours, often forgo jobs where there is a large on-call/after-hours component, will opt to work part time at a greater rate than men - not to mention taking time out of the workforce for children (again on average)

IF (and that is a big if for which I don't have proof, I'm not a mind reader - but then neither are you) he is extrapolating the global working averages of Women's work preferences and applying them to the Veterinary profession, then his comment is not sexist, but simple a statement that on average women do less gross work than Men. Was it poor form to give a figure (estimated, extrapolated or otherwise devised without proper investigation)? I'll agree that it was, but to force him to step down as a result of it - I draw the line here, I think he should be given the opportunity to clarify his remarks before being dragged over the coals.

A claim which I have to completely disagree with you on. Evidence is provided in those who self identify as feminists but do not do anything (according to your standards of action).

You did not even get close to meeting my burden of proof, which was clearly outlined, and just as clearly missed.

Wage gap is the fake stats. It is a strawman because I do not dispute the invalidity of the wage gap argument, and do not accept it's acceptance by feminists as evidence they do not want equality.

23million then, your 1.15million group is still short by a factor of 10. They literally are a minority, since 1.15 is vastly less than 23. This is simple numbers bro.

That was the point I made a couple of posts ago, you made the claim earlier the the 80% weren't getting up in arms about sexist comments made by males, with no solid data for that; hence my questioning of how you knew they weren't getting up in arms...

Don't try and play the 'by defending them you are insulting them' card, it's up to fuck all.

Extrapolating womens averages would end up at the 73% mark I got, not the 40% you and he got though, what is your justification for a figure nearly half that it actually is? He was not forced to step down either.

[TheDemonLord]

A claim which I have to completely disagree with you on. Evidence is provided in those who self identify as feminists but do not do anything (according to your standards of action).

But since being a Feminist is predicated on an active belief, inaction disqualifies one...

Feminism means revolution and I am a revolutionist.

- Frances Perkins

I've also heard first hand from numerous Feminists that not doing Activism is not being a real feminist.

You did not even get close to meeting my burden of proof, which was clearly outlined, and just as clearly missed.

Wait, what?

That third link showing feminist beliefs seems to be the closest to what I was after,

So now you are shifting the Goalposts.

Wage gap is the fake stats. It is a strawman because I do not dispute the invalidity of the wage gap argument, and do not accept it's acceptance by feminists as evidence they do not want equality.

If you believe in something (that you agree is false) that says there is an imbalance, and you then undertake activism to rectify that imbalance (where none existed) - the net result is inequality.

Considering how many times it's been pointed out to Feminists that the Wage Gap (as it is presented) is BS this leaves us with the following options:

1: They know it's fake, but don't care - thus they want inequality
2: They've seen the evidence that it's fake, but reject it because it interferes with their beliefs that women are oppressed - thus they must want inequality if they refuse to abandon this idea

Can you suggest an alternative explanation?

Bearing in mind - this isn't even bringing up The Patriarchy or Toxic Masculinity (both which IMO demonstrate higher levels of inequality - but I don't have the stats as to the percentage of Feminists that believe - based on my interaction with Feminists - I'd say the Patriarchy is probably close to 95% and Toxic Masculinity is probably in the high 80s)

23million then, your 1.15million group is still short by a factor of 10. They literally are a minority, since 1.15 is vastly less than 23. This is simple numbers bro.

That's a pretty damn good turnout for a protest when compared to the size of the group and again you ignore that NOW is the biggest Feminist organization in the US - being the biggest means it is literally impossible for it to be in the minority.

That was the point I made a couple of posts ago, you made the claim earlier the the 80% weren't getting up in arms about sexist comments made by males, with no solid data for that; hence my questioning of how you knew they weren't getting up in arms...

When you look at who is spearheading various campaigns, it is curious that all of them self-identify as part of the same group.

It's a reasonable assumption then that those who aren't spearheading the various campaigns is comprised of those who aren't in that group.

Don't try and play the 'by defending them you are insulting them' card, it's up to fuck all.

No, I'm playing the 'By infantalising them, you are insulting them' card - slightly different.

Extrapolating womens averages would end up at the 73% mark I got, not the 40% you and he got though, what is your justification for a figure nearly half that it actually is? He was not forced to step down either.

So, me and him arrived at a roughly the same figure through valid means....

Again - I don't know if his is what he was inferring or basing his 40% on, but it fits and is the most likely explanation.

Reading between the lines, he was most likely given the option to jump or be pushed - hence my comment.

[bogan]

But since being a Feminist is predicated on an active belief, inaction disqualifies one...



- Frances Perkins

I've also heard first hand from numerous Feminists that not doing Activism is not being a real feminist.



Wait, what?



So now you are shifting the Goalposts.



If you believe in something (that you agree is false) that says there is an imbalance, and you then undertake activism to rectify that imbalance (where none existed) - the net result is inequality.

Considering how many times it's been pointed out to Feminists that the Wage Gap (as it is presented) is BS this leaves us with the following options:

1: They know it's fake, but don't care - thus they want inequality
2: They've seen the evidence that it's fake, but reject it because it interferes with their beliefs that women are oppressed - thus they must want inequality if they refuse to abandon this idea

Can you suggest an alternative explanation?

Bearing in mind - this isn't even bringing up The Patriarchy or Toxic Masculinity (both which IMO demonstrate higher levels of inequality - but I don't have the stats as to the percentage of Feminists that believe - based on my interaction with Feminists - I'd say the Patriarchy is probably close to 95% and Toxic Masculinity is probably in the high 80s)



That's a pretty damn good turnout for a protest when compared to the size of the group and again you ignore that NOW is the biggest Feminist organization in the US - being the biggest means it is literally impossible for it to be in the minority.



When you look at who is spearheading various campaigns, it is curious that all of them self-identify as part of the same group.

It's a reasonable assumption then that those who aren't spearheading the various campaigns is comprised of those who aren't in that group.



No, I'm playing the 'By infantalising them, you are insulting them' card - slightly different.



So, me and him arrived at a roughly the same figure through valid means....

Again - I don't know if his is what he was inferring or basing his 40% on, but it fits and is the most likely explanation.

Reading between the lines, he was most likely given the option to jump or be pushed - hence my comment.

Again, I must disagree, and assert that feminism is simply the movement toward equal rights for women.

Closest, which showed only 5% were anti-men and thus supported my conclusion. Since you've obviously discarded that result, I thought it prudent I would too (the question was worded with bias, so it is acceptable to discard).

Separate result from motivation, action from the core belief; and we can get on the same page, until then, there is no point reiterating the same shit over and over.

23million (give or take) self identify as feminist; stop trying to skew the numbers with illogic, 1.15 is vastly less than 23, that's a minority.

What valid means? you misapplied and misinterpreted some numbers and call that valid? (I still await why full time men is compared against part time women numbers) And also assume he was given an ultimatum, then round that up to being forced to step down. Demon, mate, you're supposed to be better than this; most of it is simply a difference of opinion, but your numbers stuff here is surprisingly poor.

[Jeff Sichoe]

I dunno I just treat women the same as men but I tend to treat the ones with bigger tits a bit better so I dunno maybe an indication i'm into fat dudes?

[yokel]

C'mon Stewart, what salary are you on, then we can decide how smart you really are.

I don't but thats what the thread is about, Women being paid less than Men.

That's not what your question was about was it cock box.

I will tell you what I've spent on getting edumacated, zero K.

What stink shit do you do for a crust?


See this shit on newshub tonight, the story is non-existent on their website so this will have to do.

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/pro...of-losi-filipo

Apparently this was the fault of males and rugby now needs more womenz on their boards and shit.

The pussyfaction of everything is about to go ......Well full retard.

[Grumph]

That's not what your question was about was it cock box.

I will tell you what I've spent on getting edumacated, zero K.

What stink shit do you do for a crust?


See this shit on newshub tonight, the story is non-existent on their website so this will have to do.


Apparently this was the fault of males and rugby now needs more womenz on their boards and shit.

The pussyfaction of everything is about to go ......Well full retard.

I'm sorry to tell you but life in NZ has been as you'd say "pussyfied" for some time now...

Go to your GP, you're likely to see a female doctor. Go to court, likely to be in front of a female Judge/Magistrate - represented by a female lawyer too.
Picked up for speeding or arrested for drunken behavior - likely to be a female copper....
Race a motorcycle and the Steward and CoC may well be female - as might the rider who's just beaten you.
Die and the embalmer may well be female as may be the Funeral Director....

There is no escape. Good luck with your solitary life.

[Voltaire]

That's not what your question was about was it cock box.

I will tell you what I've spent on getting edumacated, zero K.

What stink shit do you do for a crust?


See this shit on newshub tonight, the story is non-existent on their website so this will have to do.

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/pro...of-losi-filipo

Apparently this was the fault of males and rugby now needs more womenz on their boards and shit.

The pussyfaction of everything is about to go ......Well full retard.

If you feel pussy whipped its probably of your own making, at least you can get away from it all here eh.
Heard this on the radio, thought of you

Sing along with the chorus " Vaginas where I'm from... Vagina"

[yokel]

I'm sorry to tell you but life in NZ has been as you'd say "pussyfied" for some time now...

Go to your GP, you're likely to see a female doctor. Go to court, likely to be in front of a female Judge/Magistrate - represented by a female lawyer too.
Picked up for speeding or arrested for drunken behavior - likely to be a female copper....
Race a motorcycle and the Steward and CoC may well be female - as might the rider who's just beaten you.
Die and the embalmer may well be female as may be the Funeral Director....

There is no escape. Good luck with your solitary life.

Giving women positions of authority is civilisational suicide.

We've gone from "free love" to "rape culture".

At some point we made the tranny from being somewhat egalitarian to full blown feminism.
I've noticed this change, maybe last 5 years or so.

You'll never hear a women's rights advocate talking about equal responsibility.

Dennis from accounts is now a rapist.

[Katman]

Dennis from accounts is now a rapist.

Is that the message you got from that ad?

[yokel]

Is that the message you got from that ad?

No, that add was pre third wave feminism.

[Voltaire]

Merry Christmas.

[TheDemonLord]

Again, I must disagree, and assert that feminism is simply the movement toward equal rights for women.

Indeed it Was.

They now have Equal Rights.

So by that Logic, the continued Existence of Feminism and Feminist Activism in the western world means that they are moving toward something OTHER than Equal Rights.

Closest, which showed only 5% were anti-men and thus supported my conclusion. Since you've obviously discarded that result, I thought it prudent I would too (the question was worded with bias, so it is acceptable to discard).

I've not discarded it, I'll happily concede that they SAY they aren't anti-men. However, you have to weigh that statement against the Majority that believe in the Wage Gap - so even if you remove activism you have the following cognitive dissonance - they say they don't hate men, but they believe in something false, that is based on a sexist notion against Men.

How do you reconcile those 2 positions?

Separate result from motivation, action from the core belief; and we can get on the same page, until then, there is no point reiterating the same shit over and over.

You are trying to excuse the Road to hell because the paving stones are Well intended.

I am judging the Movement on where it Moves, not why it moves, as I happen to think that Results are important.

23million (give or take) self identify as feminist; stop trying to skew the numbers with illogic, 1.15 is vastly less than 23, that's a minority.

It's not illogic - you are trying to suggest that unless everyone turns up for a Protest (in a single area, in a country as big as the US) then it isn't a Majority issue for that protest. By that Logic alone, I can point to ANY protest, point to the number of people that self-identify with that group and claim it's not a Majority issue, even when it demonstrably is.

And again you are ignoring probably the most salient point - That the Organization in question is the single biggest Feminist organization in the US - it is therefore a good representation of the Majority.

What valid means? you misapplied and misinterpreted some numbers and call that valid? (I still await why full time men is compared against part time women numbers) And also assume he was given an ultimatum, then round that up to being forced to step down. Demon, mate, you're supposed to be better than this; most of it is simply a difference of opinion, but your numbers stuff here is surprisingly poor.

So initially I thought his comments were that women work 40% less than men (and the 40% less was in reference to the ratio of Full time compared to part time I actually double checked his comment:

one woman graduate is equivalent to two-fifths of a full-time equivalent vet throughout her life because she gets married and has a family, which is normal.

Which means neither of us are actually arguing for or against the point he made (since it was in reference to Family) - I don't think his comments are that outlandish in regards to Family.

If you assume for a second that One becomes a Vet at around 25 - working till 65 - that gives a total of 40 years work. On average a Woman takes something like 3 years out of the work force per child, the average number of kids in 2.4 - which gives us about 7 years out of the Workforce - which you will note 7 out of 40 is nowhere near 40% - however that time is taken out between their late twenties to mid thirties/fourties.

The time when they are in their prime (so to speak) - so whilst it's still a number presented without solid evidence (and should therefore be dismissed as such) it's not a completely outlandish statement.

[bogan]

Indeed it Was.

They now have Equal Rights.

So by that Logic, the continued Existence of Feminism and Feminist Activism in the western world means that they are moving toward something OTHER than Equal Rights.



I've not discarded it, I'll happily concede that they SAY they aren't anti-men. However, you have to weigh that statement against the Majority that believe in the Wage Gap - so even if you remove activism you have the following cognitive dissonance - they say they don't hate men, but they believe in something false, that is based on a sexist notion against Men.

How do you reconcile those 2 positions?



You are trying to excuse the Road to hell because the paving stones are Well intended.

I am judging the Movement on where it Moves, not why it moves, as I happen to think that Results are important.



It's not illogic - you are trying to suggest that unless everyone turns up for a Protest (in a single area, in a country as big as the US) then it isn't a Majority issue for that protest. By that Logic alone, I can point to ANY protest, point to the number of people that self-identify with that group and claim it's not a Majority issue, even when it demonstrably is.

And again you are ignoring probably the most salient point - That the Organization in question is the single biggest Feminist organization in the US - it is therefore a good representation of the Majority.



So initially I thought his comments were that women work 40% less than men (and the 40% less was in reference to the ratio of Full time compared to part time I actually double checked his comment:



Which means neither of us are actually arguing for or against the point he made (since it was in reference to Family) - I don't think his comments are that outlandish in regards to Family.

If you assume for a second that One becomes a Vet at around 25 - working till 65 - that gives a total of 40 years work. On average a Woman takes something like 3 years out of the work force per child, the average number of kids in 2.4 - which gives us about 7 years out of the Workforce - which you will note 7 out of 40 is nowhere near 40% - however that time is taken out between their late twenties to mid thirties/fourties.

The time when they are in their prime (so to speak) - so whilst it's still a number presented without solid evidence (and should therefore be dismissed as such) it's not a completely outlandish statement.

Hang on, you think the wage gap is based on a sexist notion against men? And that believing this false information characterises one's motivation more strongly than what they say?

So don't use protest examples, use membership numbers. And remember, I'm making the point that one can be a feminist and identify as such, without doing anything (since it has been done); that is the majority to which I refer. The 20-odd percent of the population is simply those who self identify as feminists. You are projecting illogic when you say that 20% or majority thereof is not for equality.

The 7 out of 40 would need to be near 60%, remember he said equivalent to 40%, not 40% less than (and also assumes every woman has kids). And I think it very illogical to round up from 17.5% to 60%, it is an outlandish statement, based on nothing more than his own sexist notions, and has been recanted and dismissed as such.

[TheDemonLord]

Hang on, you think the wage gap is based on a sexist notion against men?

As it is presented by Feminists, Yes.

It uses Bad statistics in order to justify the Narrative that Men (as a Class) are still oppressing Women (as a class) - Falsely accussing ~50% of the Population for something they aren't doing is a little prejudiced, do you not agree? And when that Prejudice is based solely on ones Gender - we have a word for that....

And that believing this false information characterises one's motivation more strongly than what they say?

Well, Actions DO speak louder than words...

So don't use protest examples, use membership numbers.

Protests are a valid measure, as is looking at what is the largest organization.

And remember, I'm making the point that one can be a feminist and identify as such, without doing anything (since it has been done); that is the majority to which I refer.

And remember the point I am making that if something is a Movement, those who are not moving, aren't a part of it. If there is this Silent Majority that you refer to - what are they doing while Sexism is carried out in their Name?

I dunno about you, but if I identified as part of a Group that was doing some of the massively sexist things that Modern Feminism is doing, I'd be either telling them publicly to pull their head in - in order to make sure that the rest of the world knew that they were a fringe minority

or

I'd be distancing myself from them.

If I assume your position for a moment, I still damn them as complicit by their inaction. The issue is, there are Feminists who have tried to publicly call out some of the BS - Camille Paglia, Christina Hoff Summers as Examples.

If you are correct, then the so-called moderate Feminists (who according to you exist) should rally around these people and promote them as figureheads and examples of what Feminism should be.

Except that ISN'T what happened - They were ostracized and cast out as Heretics, accused of Witchcra... I mean 'Internalized Misogyny'. Which kinda disproves your point. This comes back to my earlier critique that if they aren't doing anything related to Feminism, then they are irrelevant to the discussion and irrelevant to Feminism.

The 20-odd percent of the population is simply those who self identify as feminists. You are projecting illogic when you say that 20% or majority thereof is not for equality.

No, I'm saying that by their actions, this 20% does not believe in Equality or are so biased in their world view that what they perceive to be Equality is actually objective inequality.

You have to contrast that 20% figure with the 66% figure of those who are for Equality - but are not Feminists - that should be a hint that most people have smelt the BS and realized it Stinks.

The 7 out of 40 would need to be near 60%, remember he said equivalent to 40%, not 40% less than (and also assumes every woman has kids). And I think it very illogical to round up from 17.5% to 60%, it is an outlandish statement, based on nothing more than his own sexist notions, and has been recanted and dismissed as such.

That's assuming an equal distribution of Productive work throughout ones working Career - my point being is that there is a bell curve of productivity for a worker, with the median somewhere (probably) around the 30s-40s for age (obviously it varies with job, for example pro athletes would probably be around mid twenties) - if you take 7 or so years out of the most productive time, it scales up.

I don't have the data to say whether it would scale up to the degree needed for his statement to be true, my comment was that it isn't as outlandish as it first appears.

[bogan]

As it is presented by Feminists, Yes.

It uses Bad statistics in order to justify the Narrative that Men (as a Class) are still oppressing Women (as a class) - Falsely accussing ~50% of the Population for something they aren't doing is a little prejudiced, do you not agree? And when that Prejudice is based solely on ones Gender - we have a word for that....



Well, Actions DO speak louder than words...



Protests are a valid measure, as is looking at what is the largest organization.



And remember the point I am making that if something is a Movement, those who are not moving, aren't a part of it. If there is this Silent Majority that you refer to - what are they doing while Sexism is carried out in their Name?

I dunno about you, but if I identified as part of a Group that was doing some of the massively sexist things that Modern Feminism is doing, I'd be either telling them publicly to pull their head in - in order to make sure that the rest of the world knew that they were a fringe minority

or

I'd be distancing myself from them.

If I assume your position for a moment, I still damn them as complicit by their inaction. The issue is, there are Feminists who have tried to publicly call out some of the BS - Camille Paglia, Christina Hoff Summers as Examples.

If you are correct, then the so-called moderate Feminists (who according to you exist) should rally around these people and promote them as figureheads and examples of what Feminism should be.

Except that ISN'T what happened - They were ostracized and cast out as Heretics, accused of Witchcra... I mean 'Internalized Misogyny'. Which kinda disproves your point. This comes back to my earlier critique that if they aren't doing anything related to Feminism, then they are irrelevant to the discussion and irrelevant to Feminism.



No, I'm saying that by their actions, this 20% does not believe in Equality or are so biased in their world view that what they perceive to be Equality is actually objective inequality.

You have to contrast that 20% figure with the 66% figure of those who are for Equality - but are not Feminists - that should be a hint that most people have smelt the BS and realized it Stinks.



That's assuming an equal distribution of Productive work throughout ones working Career - my point being is that there is a bell curve of productivity for a worker, with the median somewhere (probably) around the 30s-40s for age (obviously it varies with job, for example pro athletes would probably be around mid twenties) - if you take 7 or so years out of the most productive time, it scales up.

I don't have the data to say whether it would scale up to the degree needed for his statement to be true, my comment was that it isn't as outlandish as it first appears.

Right, so dodgy stats used to falsely accuse one of the sexes for doing something is sexist. Isn't that exactly what the chancellor did?

Then you are trying to reclassify those who self-identify as feminists, to drop the 20% down to the 1% or so found in the organisations/protests/academia etc. The moderate feminists are not required to moderate the other feminists. Complicit by inaction is absolute rubbish.

Scale up by what factor? one greater than the reducing factor for those who do not have kids? You got 17.5%, a far cry from the 60% number you seek to justify. By not both identifying the chancellor's words as sexist, and condemning him for them, are you not guilty of the exact same thing you say the 'moderate feminists' are guilty of?