Feminists going full retard.

[yokel]

It seems that, while you recognise yokel is a poor/extremist advocate for 'anti-feminism' (or other name of your choice); your arguments put forward the views of extremist feminists as strawmen.

NZ has got it pretty right in regard to the legal aspects, women do desrve special treatment around the issue of childbirth to ensure they have equal opportunities. What some people in NZ haven't yet figured out (and this would be the thread topic), is that women are worth the same as men, and there should be no distinction between them made throughout the education or employment process to affect their career prospects besides that based purely on aptitude.

I would like to see that 2:1 STEM hiring bias data, and think it worth re-stating that not all feminists push the 77c on the dollar thing.

News flash. Women don't spontaneously get pregnant.

The last misses I had wanted kids but I refused because I know full well how the system fucks you over, plus I kinda knew something was up with her, turned out she had a bad case of feminism.

Which explained the stupid shit that come out her mouth, kinda like what you're doing right now.


I also had my problems that I've since sorted out.

The whole gender pay gap is complete bullshit.
How much of men's pay go to women?
It's the man's responsibility to take care of his wife and kids, everyone else's? Not so much.

[Ocean1]

We both know that sort of thinking leads to discrimination. 40% is not a statement of fact, he has since acknowledged he had no basis for such a figure, and stepped down. The problem is most certainly with the statement, as it was incorrect, and could be taken as basis for discrimination.

I'm not quite sure what you mean there, all student's studies are subsidised by the tax payer, though the student themselves bears a large amount of cost also.

So, we're thought police now? And what is the difference in training / professional tenure between sexes?

Exactly my point. That subsidy removes the risk of losing one's own investment in their training. Classic case is the current baby doc's strike, they want to be paid commensurate with other professionals and their off shore cohorts, but the undisclosed fact there is that unlike either; they're still training, the cost of which is subsidised to the tune of around $1m each by the taxpayer.

[Ocean1]

it might not be expressed that often, but the attitude is there. Talk to some women lawyers some time. I have.

Stand by... She says she encounters misogynistic arseholes occasionally, but, under further questioning she admits they don't outrageously outnumber the concave equivalent.

Again, while the observation that women trend to fewer professional hrs than men isn't unheard of I've almost never heard it said with any derogatory intent.

But then, y'know, they're a notoriously thin skinned lot...

[PrincessBandit]

Princess as you are a teacher, maybe you can shed some light.
20-30 Years ago the academic achievement was pretty similar regardless of gender.
There were pretty similar ratios of male to female teachers within primary schools.
Nowadays i have noticed there is very few male primary teachers (actually only two at my children’s 400 child school, and one of those rarely teaches)
The male children, now seem to perform academically poorly, compared to the female children.
Is it the curriculum changes not suiting the male children? or could it be the teachers not being able to relate to how male children learn differently?
I realise there was a push to impove the females academic performance, Has it gone to far?
There is no difference between IQ or gender as far as i am aware.
What are your observations?

This is something I will spend some time looking at rather than giving an off-the-top-of-my-head reply to. (Just to satisfy your curiosity my off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts go something like "pay for teachers is not that high when you start out so perhaps less men in the profession could be indicative of looking to higher earning jobs especially when there is a family to support; boys still do very well in the education system - I'm not sure where you get your views on that from - but in my experience boys can easily get caught up in their hormone and testosterone issues when girls are in the classroom equation so that is something to consider". Like I said, that's only my knee jerk response. I will look into it further.

...a vagina is not a qualificiation...

Neither is a penis.

[TheDemonLord]

This is something I will spend some time looking at rather than giving an off-the-top-of-my-head reply to. (Just to satisfy your curiosity my off-the-top-of-my-head thoughts go something like "pay for teachers is not that high when you start out so perhaps less men in the profession could be indicative of looking to higher earning jobs especially when there is a family to support; boys still do very well in the education system - I'm not sure where you get your views on that from - but in my experience boys can easily get caught up in their hormone and testosterone issues when girls are in the classroom equation so that is something to consider". Like I said, that's only my knee jerk response. I will look into it further.

A couple of things - if you compare the performance of boys in School from now with about 50 years ago, boys today are performing worse. On your comments about they get caught up with Hormones - The teaching method of today is biased towards girls - Boys are expected to sit still and read for extended periods of time because this is what girls do and is easier for the Teacher.

I actually attended an All boys school and a Mixed school - and Objectively - we were doing things 2-3 years ahead of the Mixed school in the All boys school. I'd suggest that was because the Teachers could specialize on how to Teach boys (who tend to learn in different ways than girls).

There has also been a shift from a single end of year exam (where Boys perform better on average than girls) to micro-assessment throughout the year (which girls perform better on average than boys)

I'm not sure about the secondary school demographics, but in primary and pre-school classes, Male teachers are virtually non-existent - This has been suggested as due to a cultural Stigma that if a Man wants to interact with young children, they must be a Pedophile (despite the rates of Pedophilia occurring approximately equally between Men and Women)

[Ocean1]

if you compare the performance of boys in School from now with about 50 years ago, boys today are performing worse.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...201668_pf.html

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/educ...-loses-bullies

[PrincessBandit]

A couple of things - if you compare the performance of boys in School from now with about 50 years ago, boys today are performing worse. On your comments about they get caught up with Hormones - The teaching method of today is biased towards girls - Boys are expected to sit still and read for extended periods of time because this is what girls do and is easier for the Teacher.

I actually attended an All boys school and a Mixed school - and Objectively - we were doing things 2-3 years ahead of the Mixed school in the All boys school. I'd suggest that was because the Teachers could specialize on how to Teach boys (who tend to learn in different ways than girls).

There has also been a shift from a single end of year exam (where Boys perform better on average than girls) to micro-assessment throughout the year (which girls perform better on average than boys)

I'm not sure about the secondary school demographics, but in primary and pre-school classes, Male teachers are virtually non-existent - This has been suggested as due to a cultural Stigma that if a Man wants to interact with young children, they must be a Pedophile (despite the rates of Pedophilia occurring approximately equally between Men and Women)

Agreed, when I applied for a job at an all boys school I did some research into how teaching at a school such as that might be different from a mixed school. My assumption was that teaching methods would most likely be different - a decile 10 boys school compared to the decile 1 mixed school (roll of about 2000 students) I currently teach at. Not that the decile rating is necessarily significant, it was simply a factor of my interview preparedness.
In the classroom I try to even the playing field as much as possible by using a combination of techniques that are supposedly best suited to each gender including lots of hands-on practical/exploration stuff which generally suits boys more.
For the most part my own experience is that boys tend to push the boundaries harder and more overtly than female students (and indulge more in inappropriate behaviour for whatever reasons) and I've learned to chill out considerably more than when I started out! I have a much better relationship with all students as I've grown into the role although dickheads still are an occupational annoyance, as in any job.
The pedophilia thing is sadly an issue that isn't confined to teaching positions - I'm sure there are fathers who would say they face suspicion simply because of their gender in their role of parent. It's a sad indictment on society that men feel they should avoid a job because of this; but also that women miss out on jobs as "they might get pregnant and leave"

[TheDemonLord]

It seems that, while you recognise yokel is a poor/extremist advocate for 'anti-feminism' (or other name of your choice); your arguments put forward the views of extremist feminists as strawmen.

Okay, Lets pick some choice quotes from various Academic feminists and Feminists who have published books/works on Feminism:

Julie Bindel (Lesbian Radical Feminist, Journalist for the Guardian, publisher of several Feminist books)

It won’t, not unless men get their act together, have their power taken from them and behave themselves. I mean, I would actually put them all in some kind of camp where they can all drive around in quad bikes, or bicycles, or white vans. I would give them a choice of vehicles to drive around with, give them no porn, they wouldn’t be able to fight – we would have wardens, of course! Women who want to see their sons or male loved ones would be able to go and visit, or take them out like a library book, and then bring them back.

I hope heterosexuality doesn’t survive, actually. I would like to see a truce on heterosexuality. I would like an amnesty on heterosexuality until we have sorted ourselves out. Because under patriarchy it’s shit.

That's right - lets put Men in a concentration camp for the crime of being Male - but it's okay, Women can take them out like Library books (lolwut Objectificaiton much?)

Link to interview

Andrea Dworkin (Lesbian Radical Feminist, publisher of several Feminist books)

She simply understood that women are unspeakably vulnerable in intercourse because of the nature of the act—entry, penetration, occupation; and she understood that in a society of male power, women were unspeakably exploited in intercourse.

To summarise the chapter from her book Intercourse - she is arguing that ALL heterosexual sex is forced and therefore Rape, regardless of whether the Women consents or not.

link to book

Elizabeth Sheehy (Professor of Law at the University of Ottawa and a declared Feminist)

Professor Sheehy’s thesis is that women who experience extreme chronic abuse from their male partners should have the right to kill them pre-emptively — in their sleep, say, or when they least expect it — without fear of being charged with murder.

Now, this one on the face of it - this one seems reasonable - except when you realise it will give anyone carte blanche to kill their Husband (what about Lesbian couples, who by the way have the highest rate of Domestic Violence) and then claim abuse after the fact. With no trial to determine the validity of the claims or threat faced

Article on Thesis here - Thesis is behind Paywall

NZ has got it pretty right in regard to the legal aspects, women do desrve special treatment around the issue of childbirth to ensure they have equal opportunities.

I'm happy with Materinity Leave (although where the fuck is my Paternity leave NZ?) and other bits and pieces of sensible legislation - however Equal opportunities because of Child Birth? If you are going to grant Men the same rights (to exit from the workplace for 1-2 years on average per child at a time) and come back into the workforce - then sure. But that isn't what is being advocated, is it?

What some people in NZ haven't yet figured out (and this would be the thread topic), is that women are worth the same as men, and there should be no distinction between them made throughout the education or employment process to affect their career prospects besides that based purely on aptitude.

The problem is with that statement is that the data shows that when Women work as hard as men, they are valued as much as men.

I would like to see that 2:1 STEM hiring bias data, and think it worth re-stating that not all feminists push the 77c on the dollar thing.

Ask and ye shall recieve

And whilst not all Feminists push the 77c Myth, enough do (Academic, Popular and journalistic) that we get this happen:

[TheDemonLord]

For the most part my own experience is that boys tend to push the boundaries harder and more overtly than female students (and indulge more in inappropriate behaviour for whatever reasons) and I've learned to chill out considerably more than when I started out!

Do you think there may be a reason for this tendancy to push harder and more overtly? Perhaps young males attempting to assert a pack hierarchy (like every other highly social mammal)?

In evolutionary psychology terms, this behavior makes perfect sense - I've read a piece (which for the life of me I can't find) by an older Male teacher about how he made sure to allow a lot of room for them to sort things out themselves, but every once in a while reasserted himself as the Dominant male (at the head of the Pack) - this in turn resulted in the respect of the students.

The pedophilia thing is sadly an issue that isn't confined to teaching positions - I'm sure there are fathers who would say they face suspicion simply because of their gender in their role of parent. It's a sad indictment on society that men feel they should avoid a job because of this;

Something Something Feminism pushing the narrative that Men are always the abusers, Men are always the rapists something something Patriarchy something.

(Fun Fact - in NZ, if you are a Women, it is legally impossible for you to Rape a Man - worst you can do is Sexual Assault - as Rape is defined as a penis entering by force, Envolpment is not rape according to our Legislation)

but also that women miss out on jobs as "they might get pregnant and leave"

Whilst I have some compassion to this - assume you are a small business, there is a very real cost for you:

Assume that for any given reasonably technical job, where casual labourers aren't sufficient - there will be a period of 3-6 months for a person to gain enough experience with the nuances of the company in the role to be truly competent.

Assume that one has to be in a role for at least 1-2 years to 'pay off' so to speak this period of initial inneficiency.

Assume also that there is a cost associated with Hiring a new candidate - some companies I have worked in put the dollar figure (once all the time is accounted for, reviewing CVs, doing interviews, paying for Slave Traders, adverts on Seek/Trademe etc.) at around $5-10K to hire a new person.

So scenario 1 - you interview a Woman in her late twenties, early 30s, shes been married for 1-2 years. You spend the initial $5k on the hiring process to hire her, you then spend the 3-6 months getting her up to speed (so we will assume a net loss of productivity of $100 a week) - so for a 6 month training period - thats around $2.4K - if she stays working for you for the next 2-3 years, no problem, if she gets pregnant, you then have to spend another $5k (and possibly more as you are now on a time limit to fill the position) and then for the replacement you have to spend another 6 month training period - so another 2.4K

All up - as a Small business, you have lost productivity of around $15K (possibly more) - and considering the rates at which professional women come back to the work force full time (which is something like only 19% I think - I worked it out in another post) - you as a small business are left footing the bill for someone else's life choices.

Scenario 2 - you interview a Man, same situation - same initial hiring cost, same loss of productivity for the first 6 months - if his partner gets pregnant - he might take 3-4 weeks holiday (because lol - no Paternity leave in NZ for men!) but most importantly - he will come back to work for you - your net loss is around $7.5k BUT! because he comes back to work, he eventually pays off that initial loss to the company in the way of productivity.

In short - would you be happy to spend $15-20K to fund someone elses life choices?

If so - then please deposit the funds to the "Demon needs a new bike because reasons' registered Charity*.






*may not be actual charity.

[Akzle]

(despite the rates of Pedophilia occurring approximately equally between Men and Women)

hey fuck you! women have just as much right to be paedophiles! what fucken next?? they can't be charged with rape?! o// wait on...

[Akzle]

.



Neither is a penis.

exactly, which is why men go and get shit done instead of baaaaawwwing about how shit's unfair and they're disadvantaged or repressed. sitting back and expecting to have shit handed to them cos bbbaaaawwwww.

[Big Dog]

Psst, you can get paternal leave funded via IRD.
Only pays minimum wage for 6 weeks unless your partner medically unfit to work but it does exist.

Every employer I have had when one of my kids had arrived had traded me 5 days sick leave for a paid month off.

Sent from Tapatalk. DYAC

[TheDemonLord]

Psst, you can get paternal leave funded via IRD.
Only pays minimum wage for 6 weeks unless your partner medically unfit to work but it does exist.

Every employer I have had when one of my kids had arrived had traded me 5 days sick leave for a paid month off.

Sent from Tapatalk. DYAC

Soooo, it's not really Paternity leave - is it?

When you compared it to 14 weeks leave that you get as the Mother.

Also another fun fact - Mothers are automatically the legal guardian of a child in NZ, but the Father - well fuck him, he only gets to be the Legal guarding if he meets certain criteria....

[yokel]

As the biological father how do I fit in?
If l wasn't the child's "natural" parent would that mean I would qualify??

And what the fuck is a "different sex partner"?

"Leave may be available to:

female employees having a baby, and to their spouses or partners (includes a married, civil union or de facto relationship with a different or same-sex partner)

employees, and their spouses or partners (includes a married, civil union or de facto relationship with a different or same-sex partner), who begin permanently caring for a child under six years who is not their natural child (this includes permanent care such as adoption (external link) and home for life (external link) , but not foster care)."

I got 5 days off, took annual leave and was lucky to get the days off I did.

Then back to work.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Neither is a penis.

[Austin Powers voice]Mine is, baby. I'll send you a picture.[/Austin Powers voice]