Feminists going full retard.

[TheDemonLord]

We have the right. We just have to accept it will impact our income.

But not in the same way that Women have the right - see my comment above about the Swedish Model.

Damn straight she will need help.
Traditionally this was provided by "the village", usually by the parents of the new mum. Modern era most grandma's are still working or cbf.
In recent decades men have been taking a more active role in that first period.
Mum still needs help with meals, washing up, nappies, bathing, more nappies, someone to talk to that uses words, more nappies and generally making her available for feeding.

Cool - so you agree then, Men should play a bigger role in the first few months of a Childs life - simple solution, give everyone a fair and equal amount of Parental leave allocated directly to them - see the Swedish model.

There is evidence that your presence makes a difference to the child in the first 48 when smell is everything. Beyond that it is about you and your spouse, not your child. Your child only needs some interaction daily. Not even a fixed amount. More quality that time is the less they need.

And the way to get good quality time is?

(pssst - the answer is equal parental leave for both the Mother and Father)

Of course you should be able to stay at home and play with your child for the next 20 years but someone has to pay the bills... and there are a lot of them.
Much like chipsets the bills double about every 2 years.

I would love to stay at home and look after the kids while my wife goes and earns the bacon... but if that were the case there would be a lot less bacon.

My wife hasn't had a job in 8 years, but she often works harder than me... just don't tell her that.

I got no problem with that - I just want my role as a Father to be equal to that as the Mother in the eyes of the Government, not treated like a second class citizen when it comes to my own goddamn kids.

[husaberg]

long list of differences..............

I think you missed the multiple orgasms as well

[TheDemonLord]

I'm beginning to understand how there can be such bitterness between races.

Clearly some of us are that fucking regressive that they can't even get on with the other gender.

You mistake bitterness for objective observation. Reality is that Men get screwed, they've always been screwed - some of it we have brought on ourselves, others we have given away for the greater good of the community, but if we are to make the next major evolution of our Society, we need to realise that Men have issues and there are areas where Women have always had an advantage - these need to be addressed in the same way that we addressed the legal issues where Men had the advantage. Horses for Courses.

I have several issues with Modern Feminism as it stands - chiefly that it has won all the battles it claims to be fighting for when it comes to Women, yet pays lip service at best when it comes to Men's issues - despite reminding us at every opportunity that Feminism is about Equality.

[Katman]

Cool - so you agree then, Men should play a bigger role in the first few months of a Childs life - simple solution, give everyone a fair and equal amount of Parental leave allocated directly to them - see the Swedish model.

I don't give a fuck how much time a mother or father wants to spend with their kids.

Just don't expect someone else to pay for it.

[TheDemonLord]

I think you missed the multiple orgasms as well

They can keep that one - my Balls get sore after #4 or 5.

[TheDemonLord]

I don't give a fuck how much time a mother or father wants to spend with their kids.

Just don't expect someone else to pay for it.

So your position would be no Paternity or Maternity leave for anyone?

If so - whilst I disagree with this, it is at least a fair and equal ruling.

[Katman]

So your position would be no Paternity or Maternity leave for anyone?

Absolutely.

If you want to have kids then they should be your financial burden.

[TheDemonLord]

Absolutely.

If you want to have kids then they should be your financial burden.

Fair enough, at least it meets my criteria that it should be Equal for both genders.

[Katman]

Fair enough, at least it meets my criteria that it should be Equal for both genders.

And to be frank, I'm surprised to see you so vocal for a handout.

[TheDemonLord]

And to be frank, I'm surprised to see you so vocal for a handout.

I'm about equality.

And besides - I've got no problem with paying for things - so long as there is a net gain.

Where I take issue is when good money after bad is being thrown at a problem without fixing the root cause of the problem or when there is no net gain (from my perspective).

[Katman]

I'm about equality.

Especially when there's a handout to be had.

[bogan]

So, we're thought police now? And what is the difference in training / professional tenure between sexes?

Exactly my point. That subsidy removes the risk of losing one's own investment in their training. Classic case is the current baby doc's strike, they want to be paid commensurate with other professionals and their off shore cohorts, but the undisclosed fact there is that unlike either; they're still training, the cost of which is subsidised to the tune of around $1m each by the taxpayer.

Thought police? nobody is policing anything, there was backlash toward a statement that was factually incorrect, and promotes a way of thinking that leads to discrimination. The difference is certainly one which should be clearly outlined and supported when making statements about it having a significant effect.

Since it is only a subsidy, the removal is only partial. Not really seeing the link to the baby doc's strike tbh, is the difference is training cost paid by them here vs there really so great as to justify the wage difference over an average career expectancy?

[TheDemonLord]

Especially when there's a handout to be had.

Not really - I just happen to think that Fathers play an important role in Childrens lives and shouldn't be treated irrelevantly by the State.

I even agreed that your alternative was fair and equal and so fulfills my criteria.

[Katman]

I even agreed that your alternative was fair and equal and so fulfills my criteria.

So would you agree to pay back what your partner has been paid in Parental Leave?

'Cos I don't think you would.

I think you're happy that your partner is getting a handout but you want your handout too.

[Akzle]

But it is assigned to the Mother. There is no allowance for the Father, unless the Mother deigns it.

Compare to say Sweden where collectively Parents are allocated a total of 480 days, of which 90 days is dedicated to both the Mother and Father



Lets see...

You live longer than Men
You have a disproportionate amount spent on your health care than men (look at the dollar figure amounts spent on Breast cancer Vs Prostate cancer - despite both killing about the same amount of people a year)
You have special interest groups that have social and political clout that are taken seriously when they raise an issue.
You have Rape crisis and Womens Refuge centres - If as a Man I got Raped (or sexually assaulted by a Woman, because it is impossible for a woman to Rape a man in NZ) - where do I go? None of the crisis centres accept Men. The DV shelters in AKL - there are 8 of them - guess how many offer assistance to Men? Zero. And yet - various studies show that Men get abused by their partners at about the same rates that women do.
You have special scholarships and university courses designed specifically with you in mind, to the exclusion of Men, despite the fact that Women are entering higher education in larger numbers than Men.
You have the right to keep your children as the de-facto arrangement after a divorce/seperation without having to pay several thousand dollars for a 10% chance to gain custody of your own damned Children.
You have the right to opt out of Parenthood after the fact with no regard for the Fathers input.
You also have the right to fleece the income of the Father (who has no say in your decision to keep the child or not) for 18 years, with no measures put in place to ensure that income is spent on the child.
You have the right to avoid Prison when committing a crime, when compared to a Man (all other factos being equal - women go to prison about 40% of the time when compared to Men,)
You have the right to lower insurance premiums (can you imagine the outrage if Men decided to tax women more because they cost more....)
You have the right to Women-only spaces, without someone demanding that you admit men on the grounds of 'equality'
You have the right to keep your labia and clitoris and not worry about bits of your genitals being hacked off (without a sound medical reason) thanks to some barbaric and ancient customs.
You have groups lobbying for you to entire high paid, safe, influential and socially prestigious jobs (which are typically dominated by men) without the responsibility of entering the low paid, dangerous, forgotten and socially stigmatized jobs.

Shall I go on?

dude, but... fanny.