NOT GOOD, Worst deaths in 19 years

[willytheekid]

It would be interesting to get cassina evaluated by Peter. I suspect there are big issues with her riding.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

Ahhh, I think It would be more interesting to get cassina evaluated by "other" professionals (Lets not waste poor Rastiscats time....hes just a riding instructor!, and he is already WELL aware of cassinas...errr...issues!)


is ok cassina...we can spot our own!

[MD]

Unbelievable but again today, another motorcyclist dead. That must be close to one a day for a week. This time a lone rider near Mt Cook.

I've stayed away from commenting on the why's and why not's being discussed here as there are just too many variables in each accident. Each one is a combination of circumstances, some our own doing, some beyond our control or awareness. Trying to find a common denominator to magically solve the problem is a big ask.

personally I always want to know why I crashed and so long as I can understand what happened, what I did wrong - if I was at fault, then I'm at peace with myself and to continue riding.

Sadly, this week so many are not even surviving to ponder what went wrong. I can see TBTB and ACC jumping on this band wagon next year and the cost of riding increasing. So long as we are crashing this frequently we don't have a valid argument against any rego/ACC increases. User pays.

Lets just all try and be as safe and alert to our surroundings as possible at all times and do better in 2017.

One last observation. I would say from personal opinion being out and about on our roads a lot, that there are less people riding bikes each year, not more as these stats seem to imply.

[george formby]

When I say I slow down its not to a crawl but just enough so that if I have to stop suddenly I dont end up dropping my bike..

Hmmmmm, that sounds fearful.....

I've found the safest way to stop a bike is to gently apply the front brake while you are pushing it. I mean gently, you don't want to lock up that nasty front wheel at sub walking pace. Scary shit!

[onearmedbandit]

But earlier posts I was rubbished for not keeping an eye out for potential dangerous situations and now I have given an example of keeping an eye on a hazard I still get rubbished.

No you said that because I said I was keeping an eye out for potential hazards that it sounded to you like I was riding in 'fear', but when you do it you're not. Holier than thou?

[onearmedbandit]

Regarding training, I'm an advocate of it. My father made me do a defensive driving course when I got my license back when I was 15yrs old, best thing he ever did for me. Situational awareness and hazard detection are two of the things that stood out to me and that I still employ today. Amazes me that this sort of training isn't compulsory.

But you gave me the impression you rode in constant fear rather than have a bit of fear only in certain situations.

There's my post that somehow gave you that impression. Can you explain how you arrived at that conclusion from what I posted?


I'll even help you a little. Your reply should be something like 'you never actually said you ride in fear'. Want to know why? I don't believe I ever 'ride in fear', however I most certainly ride with awareness, of my surroundings, other traffic, etc. But no, not in 'fear'.

[WristTwister]

2 pedestrians died this holiday season and 2 people using public transport, that's 31% of the road toll - when are ACC going to ban walking and public transport?

My point being that statistics can tell any story you want.

Be safe everyone. Watch your speed and watch for cagers because they aren't watching for you.

[george formby]

But earlier posts I was rubbished for not keeping an eye out for potential dangerous situations and now I have given an example of keeping an eye on a hazard I still get rubbished.

I'm rubbishing the fact that you consider the threat of an oncoming vehicle performing an overtake can be mitigated by slowing down and creating the space and temptation for them to do so. Your rationale is concern about braking at the open road speed limit, your happier braking from a slower speed, quite possibly at the road side where all the rubbish collects. Hardly improving your braking safety.

Whatever makes you happy I guess.

[Blackbird]

Whatever makes you happy I guess.

I'm surprised you're trying to argue logically - remember the famous multi-page IAM post? Cassina has a different perspective from everyone else.

Do yourself a favour and go for a ride - much better for the soul

[george formby]

I'm surprised you're trying to argue logically - remember the famous multi-page IAM post? Cassina has a different perspective from everyone else.

Do yourself a favour and go for a ride - much better for the soul

LOL. I'm practicing self discipline when it comes to handling misguided or illogical perspectives, even people trying to get a bite for their own entertainment. I've not used a single nasty word all day.

[AllanB]

I'm rubbishing the fact that you consider the threat of an oncoming vehicle performing an overtake can be mitigated by slowing down and creating the space and temptation for them to do so. Your rationale is concern about braking at the open road speed limit, your happier braking from a slower speed, quite possibly at the road side where all the rubbish collects. Hardly improving your braking safety.

Whatever makes you happy I guess.

Very valid points above.

Possibly Cassina fear of oncoming traffic pulling out to overtake could be alleviated with some decent rider training?

[Ulsterkiwi]

Unbelievable but again today, another motorcyclist dead. That must be close to one a day for a week. This time a lone rider near Mt Cook.

I've stayed away from commenting on the why's and why not's being discussed here as there are just too many variables in each accident. Each one is a combination of circumstances, some our own doing, some beyond our control or awareness. Trying to find a common denominator to magically solve the problem is a big ask.

personally I always want to know why I crashed and so long as I can understand what happened, what I did wrong - if I was at fault, then I'm at peace with myself and to continue riding.

Sadly, this week so many are not even surviving to ponder what went wrong. I can see TBTB and ACC jumping on this band wagon next year and the cost of riding increasing. So long as we are crashing this frequently we don't have a valid argument against any rego/ACC increases. User pays.

Lets just all try and be as safe and alert to our surroundings as possible at all times and do better in 2017.

One last observation. I would say from personal opinion being out and about on our roads a lot, that there are less people riding bikes each year, not more as these stats seem to imply.

I really do not mean to completely diss the perspective you have expressed here but its a good demonstration of how our misinformed opinions are directing many of our attitudes. The figures say that there are more motorcycles on the road than ever. Your opinion is there are fewer, it is based, by your explanation, on your "being on the roads" and presumably what you see, that is never the whole story is it?
The figures also show that the rate of crashes when compared to the number of riders on the road is decreasing. Raw numbers or inappropriate statistics plucked from the air never tell the whole story. I have yet to meet a journalist (and I know a few) who really understand statistics, whether descriptive or analytical so the Stuff article goes very firmly in the "meh" box for me.

The figures also tell us that when we die on our bikes, its rarely down to anyone but ourselves as riders. Lets say, just for the sake of argument, those figures are only half right. That's still a lot of deaths that MIGHT be avoided if we were more honest with ourselves about our skills and abilities as riders. There are some who are not convinced of the value of training or even that they have something to learn. Here is the challenge, a bet if you like, spend $20 on a one day course rather than a powerball ticket and go book yourself on a Ride Forever course and try to go with an open mind. I am pretty sure you will come away feeling the benefit of the course in your riding.
Will attendance instantly make you a better rider and mean you won't crash? Of course not, thats a dumb assertion and noone delivering those courses will ever claim that. What they will do is give you something to think about. For many the one thing is that maybe riding the way they have for 10/20/30 years is not actually as shit hot as they thought and there is a better way to do things. A way they will have to work hard on to get right.

Returning riders get picked on quite a lot, with some justification. When you don't use skills for 15-30 years, you lose them. Newsflash, if you don't use skills for a few weeks you lose them, or at the very least you lose your edge with them. Now think of all the riders who put the bikes away for winter, never ride in the rain, only ride once a month, don't practice their emergency braking every week, don't practice how to evade an unexpected obstacle or hazard etc etc etc
Skills are perishable, keep them fresh and up to date, egos are for dead people and you are a long time dead.

[willytheekid]

WELL!!....I'm actually too scared to ride presently


Why?...because I know my own body and skill limits are currently compromised!

...after that drunk fuck! in the 4x4 sideswiped me, Ive been left basically crippled!, even walking hurts!, so after just 10mins of riding now, I am in severe pain, the left arm shuts down, knee gives out, and the body just starts to scream in pain...add on to all that, being overworked in my current role, and left dead tired at the end of every work day...its just a recipe for pure disaster!! (And work is not really into the leather look! lol)

Hence, I haven't ridden the VFR as daily transport for over a full year now (yes...its killing me on the inside)...but I prefer to GET home to my family each night...rather than risking having my body or focus fail me when I need it the most for the trip home.


...still "trying" to fix the broken body, but until such time, I have deemed myself simply unsafe to ride!...the personal risk has more than doubled due to my injuries limiting my control of the bike and any possible reaction abilities...already had the arm "turn off" mid corner (Yeah...rather messy exit from THAT corner lol)


...my body is broken, I accept this...so the bike stays parked up until I can improve....or I know!, I will become another road stat if I stupidly ignore these personal warning signs and loss of ability & control.



Ride Safe Kbers...Know your limits...don't push them



PS....still sneaking out for the odd weekend ride & Wheelie tho

[R650R]

To me training gives you options when things go wrong. Say when you are out wide on a turn and you see a tractor going slow, you have more time to react.

I agree that sometimes shit is going to get you but would rather have a good chance to react.

Well I'm about 6 steps ahead of what their 'teaching' you on that training course due to real world life experience.

I'm smelling the diesel fumes from its exhaust.
I'm seeing the fresh tyre tracks fromn the driveway it pulled out of.
I'm noting the shit dropping on the road from its underbelly, clippings, mud clumps etc.
I'm noting the oncoming vehicles correcting their path after pulling left to give the wide tractor more room.
I'm noting the vehicles ahead changing their driving pattern, braking routine... they've seen something im going to see shortly....
I'm noting the leaves falling in the air that have been ruffled from the trees by a large or high vehicle ahead...

Did they mention all that on the special course? BTW I'm not dissing training, just its not a cure all and it barely scratches the surface of driving intel that professionals build up due to high mileage.
Most training is going to be dumbed down to be easily digested in a short weekend session and I object to forcing/coercing people it doing it then endangering themselves with a dose of smugness. Yes smugness the next dangerous thing after recklessness...

BTW that being out wide on the corner thing is horseshit except maybe at low speeds. I'd love to see a photograph with the maths and trigonometry proving that a significant safety margin is gained. The ONLY time its a tangible benefit is PERHAPS for police in hgihspeed pursuits where they have a legal reason to use the wrong side of the road to read ahead.
For average joe riding in a LEGAL manner on a public road being another 1.5m to the right on a left hand bend isn't going to give you diddly squat extra vision.
The bigger hazard is colliding with an oncoming vehicle cutting the centreline, why be closer to that hazard when you can eliminate the slow tractor hazard by driving in accordance with the road code to start with.
If you are driving at such a speed to stop withen the vsible distance on a laned road or half that distance on unlaned road then you should NEVER asre end a tractor or even have the need to 'see' further around a blind corner.
A blind corner is only one you have entered TOO FAST, so its utter horsehit for professional trainers to be peddling a solution to a situation you should not be in to start with.

Someone PLKEASE p[rove me wrong with photographic and mathmatecal evidence on this please....

[onearmedbandit]

Well I'm about 6 steps ahead of what their 'teaching' you on that training course due to real world life experience.

I'm smelling the diesel fumes from its exhaust.
I'm seeing the fresh tyre tracks fromn the driveway it pulled out of.
I'm noting the shit dropping on the road from its underbelly, clippings, mud clumps etc.
I'm noting the oncoming vehicles correcting their path after pulling left to give the wide tractor more room.
I'm noting the vehicles ahead changing their driving pattern, braking routine... they've seen something im going to see shortly....
I'm noting the leaves falling in the air that have been ruffled from the trees by a large or high vehicle ahead...

Actually that and more is what I got taught to look for on my DD course back in 1990.

[old slider]

Well I'm about 6 steps ahead of what their 'teaching' you on that training course due to real world life experience.

I'm smelling the diesel fumes from its exhaust.
I'm seeing the fresh tyre tracks fromn the driveway it pulled out of.
I'm noting the shit dropping on the road from its underbelly, clippings, mud clumps etc.
I'm noting the oncoming vehicles correcting their path after pulling left to give the wide tractor more room.
I'm noting the vehicles ahead changing their driving pattern, braking routine... they've seen something im going to see shortly....
I'm noting the leaves falling in the air that have been ruffled from the trees by a large or high vehicle ahead...

Did they mention all that on the special course? BTW I'm not dissing training, just its not a cure all and it barely scratches the surface of driving intel that professionals build up due to high mileage.
Most training is going to be dumbed down to be easily digested in a short weekend session and I object to forcing/coercing people it doing it then endangering themselves with a dose of smugness. Yes smugness the next dangerous thing after recklessness...

BTW that being out wide on the corner thing is horseshit except maybe at low speeds. I'd love to see a photograph with the maths and trigonometry proving that a significant safety margin is gained. The ONLY time its a tangible benefit is PERHAPS for police in hgihspeed pursuits where they have a legal reason to use the wrong side of the road to read ahead.
For average joe riding in a LEGAL manner on a public road being another 1.5m to the right on a left hand bend isn't going to give you diddly squat extra vision.
The bigger hazard is colliding with an oncoming vehicle cutting the centreline, why be closer to that hazard when you can eliminate the slow tractor hazard by driving in accordance with the road code to start with.
If you are driving at such a speed to stop withen the vsible distance on a laned road or half that distance on unlaned road then you should NEVER asre end a tractor or even have the need to 'see' further around a blind corner.
A blind corner is only one you have entered TOO FAST, so its utter horsehit for professional trainers to be peddling a solution to a situation you should not be in to start with.

Someone PLKEASE p[rove me wrong with photographic and mathmatecal evidence on this please....

I have noticed many riders use either the left or the right hand tyre track area on their side of the road, most using the right. My long time reasoning has been that any engine, sumps, diffs etc dripping oil, leaking fuel, etc would most likely be onto that section of the road surface, you know between the axles, any thoughts? personally I try to avoid the centre section on my side of road especially if damp, but I guess leaking brake fluid, wheel cylinders etc could nullify that thinking. lol