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Thread: NOT GOOD, Worst deaths in 19 years

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossy1200 View Post
    Looks like MV and KTM are the safest option.
    Good spotting. I may feature on a list of "severely bruised" though.

    Must admit I'm surprised that three people managed to get their Ducatis going long enough to contribute...
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    If you have to ride with so much fear of coming to grief is it not time to give up riding? Do people climb mountains with a fear of coming to grief?
    A little fear is a healthy thing.
    I love the smell of twin V16's in the morning..

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moi View Post
    I wonder if I've misunderstood Table 4.

    I took from what was presented in that table to mean that the biker hit the rear of the other vehicle. My reason for thinking that is that other categories are labelled "other vehicle" which implies, to me, that the first category - "rear end, striking" - means the bike struck another vehicle.
    Sory, bad assumption re your post on my part.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    A bikers' rear may be a problem in stop/start traffic or stationary at a junction. That's where rearward observation combined with an escape path comes into it.
    Agreed. I just meant that I don't think too many riders are worried about being rear-ended.

    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    Constantly adapting to conditions is the mark of a skilled rider though isn't it? A bit of anticipation reduces the element of surprise to a degree.
    Indeed it is. But even the most alert rider can be caught out, just not nearly as often (and likely with a better result) as someone with the careless attitude that cassina seems to be advocating.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    All the time riding looking for potential things that could go wrong does give me the impressing you ride in fear. My level of alertness for danger varies depending on where I am but if fear was to kick in as soon as I got out the gate I would give up riding.
    I'm shocked that you can equated making yourself as aware of your surroundings as possible, with riding in fear.

    Do you also subscribe to the theory that you can't be expected to concentrate the whole time you're riding?
    Quote Originally Posted by husaberk View Post
    Oh I must really irk you to be repeatedly proven to be a total utter moron in public.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hads View Post
    I crunched the numbers over a year back, there is a lot of detailed low level information if you know where to look

    https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...ash+statistics

    As for the article, it is worth noting it was proportion, cars got a lot safer post 2000's, bikes have not as we can't have airbags.
    ta will have to look closer aletr when have time
    Failing to take corners and life seriously since 197X

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by swbarnett View Post
    Agreed. Although, no matter how much training you get, it's important to remember that you will never know what you still don't know.
    Yep that's one thing I keep in mind, both training and experience never fully prepare you for every scenario.
    The best training io had, however simple was the plain old boring defensive driving course back in highschool days. Back then it had not occurred to me (as young person) that running off the road entirely was an option when confronted with headon crash. "What you mean Im going to wreck my new wheels, let the other guy in worng escape and tehn live to tell about it, that kinda sucks!"
    There were three or maybe four R's, read road ahead, realise dangerous sitiaution, react (move left or brake), run right off road if necessary. That basic premise still works for with addition of experience fine tuning it.
    But I do wonder how many road victims thought processes don't get to enage that far, just fear and panic braking only.....

    Very often I've seen a dangerous sitation develop and the oncoming motorist reacts too slowly to the bad driver due to their sense of entitlement of them not suppose to being on their side of road....
    Failing to take corners and life seriously since 197X

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by R650R View Post
    Yep that's one thing I keep in mind, both training and experience never fully prepare you for every scenario.
    The best training io had, however simple was the plain old boring defensive driving course back in highschool days. Back then it had not occurred to me (as young person) that running off the road entirely was an option when confronted with headon crash. "What you mean Im going to wreck my new wheels, let the other guy in worng escape and tehn live to tell about it, that kinda sucks!"
    There were three or maybe four R's, read road ahead, realise dangerous sitiaution, react (move left or brake), run right off road if necessary. That basic premise still works for with addition of experience fine tuning it.
    But I do wonder how many road victims thought processes don't get to enage that far, just fear and panic braking only.....

    Very often I've seen a dangerous sitation develop and the oncoming motorist reacts too slowly to the bad driver due to their sense of entitlement of them not suppose to being on their side of road....
    To me training gives you options when things go wrong. Say when you are out wide on a turn and you see a tractor going slow, you have more time to react.

    I agree that sometimes shit is going to get you but would rather have a good chance to react.

    As a side note, better observation has improved my driving as well. Bit had to filter in a Commodore though.

    Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    but once again you proved me wrong.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by swbarnett View Post
    Agreed. I just meant that I don't think too many riders are worried about being rear-en


    Indeed it is. But even the most alert rider can be caught out, just not nearly as often (and likely with a better result) as someone with the careless attitude that cassina seems to be advocating.
    So you label someone who can not avoid an accident casued by someone else "careless" What then do you call the causer of the accident then as they are usually labeled the careless one? I guess if you are ever hit through someone elses carelessness you will forgive them and take the blame yourself?

  10. #160
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    Summat missing in this well chewed topic so far, IMHO, is why we ride bikes in the first place. They are fun! Bloody hilarious actually and for me personally, totally involving. It's not just the braaaap I enjoy but doing something which takes up all of my attention. I don't think about whats for tea or who has posted on facebook when I'm riding, I'm in the moment. Observing, anticipating, trying to join the dots of everything I can sense.

    I don't apply myself so completely because I'm in fear, it's because I enjoy it, love it.

    Training and practice is fun, too. It takes me out of my comfort zone, improves my instinctive reactions and broadens my abilities and knowledge. Which, funnily enough, makes riding even more fun. Rinse and repeat.
    It's always a pleasure when a potential hazard pops up on the radar and is a non event due to what I'm learning and practicing. I like non eventful rides.

    Training is a social thing, too. It's great to get out and meet new riders and highly skilled professionals, talk bikes, share stories and generally broaden the whole motorcycle experience. It may not be for everybody but a days training is a nice change from riding the usual roads and generally gives me more to consider next time I do head out for a Far North lap.

    Just sayin. Anything that increases the fun factor and improves safety has to be a good thing.
    Manopausal.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by R650R View Post
    Yep that's one thing I keep in mind, both training and experience never fully prepare you for every scenario.
    The best training io had, however simple was the plain old boring defensive driving course back in highschool days. Back then it had not occurred to me (as young person) that running off the road entirely was an option when confronted with headon crash. "What you mean Im going to wreck my new wheels, let the other guy in worng escape and tehn live to tell about it, that kinda sucks!"
    There were three or maybe four R's, read road ahead, realise dangerous sitiaution, react (move left or brake), run right off road if necessary. That basic premise still works for with addition of experience fine tuning it.
    But I do wonder how many road victims thought processes don't get to enage that far, just fear and panic braking only.....

    Very often I've seen a dangerous sitation develop and the oncoming motorist reacts too slowly to the bad driver due to their sense of entitlement of them not suppose to being on their side of road....
    Often if I have no traffic in front of me with a lot of traffic coming towards I will slow down and ride as much to the left as possible in case someone trys an overtake. On a bike you would likely be ok if someone does an overtake in this situation but I dont think I would be doing it in a truck becasue chances are you would be ok in a head on but get killed or seriously injured if you had to dump your truck over a bank to avoid a head on. I remember years ago a truck driver said many people crossed the Southern Motorway in Auckland at night and he said he would not be risking a jackknife to stop for any of them.

  12. #162
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    It would be interesting to get cassina evaluated by Peter. I suspect there are big issues with her riding.

    Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    but once again you proved me wrong.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    Often if I have no traffic in front of me with a lot of traffic coming towards I will slow down and ride as much to the left as possible in case someone trys an overtake.
    I'm probably going to regret getting into a conversation with you again, but ah fuck it, here goes. What you've described there to me sounds like you are riding in fear. Riding in fear of someone overtaking so you slow right down and move as far left in your lane as possible. That to me is inviting an overtake because it's quite possible someone will see an essentially empty opposite lane. In the situation you describe above I'll stay in my normal position (called 'owning your lane') and watch closely for any change in the oncoming traffics behaviour. And while I haven't been riding quite as long as you I've never had a situation arise where I've had to take 'emergency action', but I have however needed to react to a vehicle pulling out which I've done with no knee-jerk response.
    http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/signaturepics/sigpic31_1.gif

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzspokes View Post
    It would be interesting to get cassina evaluated by Peter. I suspect there are big issues with her riding.

    Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

    Ahhh, I think It would be more interesting to get cassina evaluated by "other" professionals (Lets not waste poor Rastiscats time....hes just a riding instructor!, and he is already WELL aware of cassinas...errr...issues!)


    is ok cassina...we can spot our own!

    When Life thows me a curve
    ...I lean into it!

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by onearmedbandit View Post
    I'm probably going to regret getting into a conversation with you again, but ah fuck it, here goes. What you've described there to me sounds like you are riding in fear. Riding in fear of someone overtaking so you slow right down and move as far left in your lane as possible. That to me is inviting an overtake because it's quite possible someone will see an essentially empty opposite lane. In the situation you describe above I'll stay in my normal position (called 'owning your lane') and watch closely for any change in the oncoming traffics behaviour. And while I haven't been riding quite as long as you I've never had a situation arise where I've had to take 'emergency action', but I have however needed to react to a vehicle pulling out which I've done with no knee-jerk response.
    When I say I slow down its not to a crawl but just enough so that if I have to stop suddenly I dont end up dropping my bike. In my case its not riding in fear but identifying potential hazards and being prepared to stop safely if I have to. Remaining in the centre of the lane at 100km hr does give you a hell of a lot less time to react if shit happens but thats your choice. As I have said before shit can happen before you have time to brake or swerve and all those that dont believe that only do so because shit has never happened so quick in situations they have been in.

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