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Thread: NOT GOOD, Worst deaths in 19 years

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by pritch View Post
    It can be a factor undoubtedly but a major contributor? I was once present at the scene of an accident that I would attribute to exactly that.
    That's once in nearly sixty years. Which while it was a major prang could hardly be referred to as major in a statistical sense.
    I still do group rides but tend to avoid the big ones where the idiots come out to play. And at no stage will I ride harder than I'm comfortable.

    So nah, IMNSHO you're both wrong.

    I am and was completely new to group riding, well apart from the small group 6-8 maniacs I raced around with in those helmet less years pre 1974 amongst a range of 250-500cc jappers. How we all survived is any ones guess, must have been luck.

    But after hesitation from reading of the dangers of group rides I finally had my first proper group ride with the Wellington HOG chapter, very well organized and the right (knowledgeable) people seemed to be at each end of the large group, I was approached being the unknown rider, after a brief, we left, I actually felt safer on that ride than I did riding solo?

  2. #362
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    More people riding = more people are going to crash and of those some will die

    it sucks but it's not like this is a new thing...

    I noticed myself after chalking up a few thousand k's this Christmas that it was towards the end of a long day that mistakes are made.

    Perhaps the ACC angle should not be 'spend hours at a course which teaches to the lowest common denominator' but free maccas vouchers so people can have a burger and a coke before they start making dumb overtaking decisions from fatigue.

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by old slider View Post
    I actually felt safer on that ride than I did riding solo?
    But surely you felt pressured by the need to keep up?




    After thunk:

    Actually it's not complicated.

    First rule of group riding: turn up on time with a full tank and an empty bladder.
    Second rule: ride your own speed.

    Groups with a lead and a tail end charlie only need to bother about rule 1, but sadly too many riders can't even do that.
    Last edited by pritch; 9th January 2017 at 12:30. Reason: After thunk
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    For all those who said trucks can stop as quick as a car here is a message I found on FB from an actual truck driver.

    "While people are enjoying the Xmas and New year's break, us truckies are still hard at it keeping the wheels turning. Without us your stores would be empty and supermarkets shelves would be bare. Please spare a thought for us before dangerously over taking or pulling out on us. Remember it takes us a hell of a lot of road to stop. Let's all get home safe and trouble free.
    reading comprehension not your strong point eh?

    i like the bit where facts and figures and //

    o... wait on

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    When any vehicle hits the brakes in front of me I take it as a signal to hit them too.
    yeah, see. i keep enough distance and apropriate speed that coming off the gas, while they're braking, will only soak up enough spacetime, that i'm still in a good place by the time they're speeding up again.

    brake pads last me fucken ages.

    also, anyone "hitting" the brakes has probably already fucked up.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I don't give a shit how many people I piss off by saying it but.......

    .....Cassina is absolutely right that pressure to keep up is a major contributor to crashes during group rides.

    Anyone who tries to deny it is kidding themselves.

    ...one observation that rings of the truth does not excuse her from being totally out of her depth in relation to the other absolute crap and wrongs that she espouses on here...it is still a fucking idiot and full of self damaging beliefs and she is just another lucky fuckwit that is lucky to be alive...another infraction from Gremlin coming up probably, but it is a fuckwit and somehow makes me more angry than I should allow myself to get on an internet forum...


    .

  7. #367
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    The simple fact is that when in a group, you are very likely to be riding at a different speed than you would choose. But is this a significant cause of accidents? I very much doubt it.

    Most sportsbike riders tend to be in small groups if they're not solo. I see a few going fast, but most travel at sane speeds. If you regularly ride at 140 plus on upper North Island roads, something bad is likely to happen eventually, whether you're solo or in a group.



    Sent from somewhere using Tapatalk

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moise View Post
    . If you regularly ride at 140 plus on upper North Island roads, something bad is likely to happen eventually, whether you're solo or in a group.
    i seee you bought into that whole "speed is dangerous" propaganda.

    i disagree.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    A significant percentage of group rides are still conducted in a manner that makes them indistinguishable from a road race.

    So yes, trying to match the pace of others is a major contributor to crashes that occur on that type of group ride.
    Steve your message has always been right.
    this cassina's is not right and it keeps changing.
    Personally I know of a small number of riders who have come off during group rides I've attended, none of them died,"they didn't crash on fast stretches of road, they crashed in a car park and on one memorable ( for all the wrong reasons) they ended up with their nice shiny new BMW bike under an equally expensive motor car on the exit road from the Dorkland domain. After and I stress.
    After, an AAG (Auckland Action Group) ACC Protest ride, that had attracted hundreds of bikes and which travelled many K's in and around Auckland without a hitch.
    These were inexperienced riders, who were riding with a large group of other motorcyclists. They crashed because they panicked and grabbed brakes when they could have done things differently and come out the other side unscathed. Far as I know both are still riding and they've learn't from those mistakes, way back then.
    If cassina had just once said, "some people succumb to the devil and twist before thinking when on a group ride". Then I'd agree.
    If they said"some( we all know which ones aye) groups actively encourage big bikes and ballsy manouvres that involve higher risks, knowing that some of their newly attracted riders are inexperienced and not caring a single jot". I'd agree.
    But No. They say all inexperienced riders who go on group rides are going to commit Hari kari because of the pressure to "keep up". FUCKING BULLSHIT."

    This is 100% wrong".

    I've been on group rides organised by some of NZ's most well known motorcycle clubs, where the ride leader has suggested that the lead elements(Read faster Riders) might like to take this much twistier and therefore more challenging stretch of road and should stop to pick up the rest of the ride here! after they've enjoyed a good old fashioned fang.Now I'm no prude and I don't always ride to the speed limit, but I used my own brain and decided for myself that I wasn't riding with the lead elements that or any other day. A personal choice, one which I make everytime I climb into a car or onto a bike.
    On all of the group rides I've ever been assoiciated with. That means where I've been involved, either organising,directing, leading, acting as TEC, or simply as some ride leaders like to have happening, patrolling the lines and making sure everyone is comfortaqble and happy with their space.
    My experience of group riding has been almost 100% positive, from the time I first started going on big (2-3000 bike Toy runs) in the days when they started at Western Springs, went down to Ramarama Hall and then back to the Town hall in the city.These rides were attended by every one of the then notorious gangs and they behaved as well as anyone else did, it was the cause ( the Kids) and the rides were always well signposted and or had control types ( be they Police, or scouting riders) controlling intersections and lane use while on the motorway.My wife and I have ridden amongst the BP The Mongy's, the FF the 61's of course the HA's and never once been pressured about our Jappa or how fast we were going, not on that day and not by them.
    Same guys different day, a completely different story, One of those, "that type of ride observations"
    Your new friend is a dangerous and unknown quantity, most of us here could have some sympathy but for their relentless bitching about group rides being the root of all evil.
    Note, they've observed group rides from their MOTORCAR and seen riders being so intimidated by the need to "keep up"that they've crashed.
    BS, is what I call it and by Hokey I'm pretty sure I'm speaking for most here when I say, go and get some professional training, actually go on some properly orgnised group rides and experience the welcoming and the cossetting of new riders, the talk after the ride always goes back to who saw what, did what and what could have been different.
    Then go and learn how to see whats on the road ahead of you before you get there so you can stop hitting uncontrolled dogs and moving sheets of black ice.
    Despite inviting this poster to do the things I've said just above, they've no intention of doing so, they believe that their riding is perfectly OK and they're not in need of advancing thier skills or abilities.
    I ask you KM, is there a motorcyclist out there that wouldn't benefit from learning new things about themselves and their bike?
    Every day above ground is a good day!:

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Sichoe View Post
    More people riding = more people are going to crash and of those some will die
    Not necessarily ... but that's the way to bet. But the number of deaths as a percentage of motorcyclists on the road was actually dropping.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseye View Post
    Personally I know of a small number of riders who have come off during group rides I've attended, none of them died,"they didn't crash on fast stretches of road, they crashed in a car park and on one memorable ( for all the wrong reasons) they ended up with their nice shiny new BMW bike under an equally expensive motor car on the exit road from the Dorkland domain. After and I stress.
    After, an AAG (Auckland Action Group) ACC Protest ride,
    Sorry, gotta share the love, but that whole post's a winner... :
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    For all those who said trucks can stop as quick as a car here is a message I found on FB from an actual truck driver.

    "While people are enjoying the Xmas and New year's break, us truckies are still hard at it keeping the wheels turning. Without us your stores would be empty and supermarkets shelves would be bare. Please spare a thought for us before dangerously over taking or pulling out on us. Remember it takes us a hell of a lot of road to stop. Let's all get home safe and trouble free.
    If a truck (18wheeler) slams it's brakes they can stop surprisingly fast, faster than alot of cars & bikes
    However it is extremely uncomfortable to do so; it is much more comfortable to go through the person in front than to lock the brakes

    Also have a video, it's fully loaded at 40T no human intervention on wet road
    Science Is But An Organized System Of Ignorance
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  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve View Post
    If a truck (18wheeler) slams it's brakes they can stop surprisingly fast, faster than alot of cars & bikes
    However it is extremely uncomfortable to do so; it is much more comfortable to go through the person in front than to lock the brakes

    Also have a video, it's fully loaded at 40T no human intervention on wet road
    Look it doesn't matter what proof or evidence you've magic'd up, cassina has read a post on facebook. Subject closed geddit??

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akzle View Post
    i seee you bought into that whole "speed is dangerous" propaganda.

    i disagree.
    Stop being so sensible. Go back to the Ol'Azkill we have come to know and love.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Sichoe View Post
    Perhaps the ACC angle should not be 'spend hours at a course which teaches to the lowest common denominator' but free maccas vouchers so people can have a burger and a coke before they start making dumb overtaking decisions from fatigue.
    the two ride forever courses i have done were matched to the attendies and given they were both gold courses they did teach higher level road craft, if you want to avoid being on a course with muppets (they don't tend to upskil anyway) then do what we did which was organise a course for our group of riding friends

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