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Thread: NOT GOOD, Worst deaths in 19 years

  1. #16
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    Nek Minnit

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    Nunquam Non Paratus

  2. #17
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    Course if nothing else this'll mean bikes are bout to get harassed more... yay
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  3. #18
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    Angry Urgh OK.

    Let me just say this article is a load of shit. As per usual journalists have no fucken clue how statistics work.

    The first stat that matters is how many deaths per rider.
    This tells us whether or not there are more accidents because there are more riders - a number that any idiot who did statistics at school would want to know.

    Experience or Training
    Break the numbers down by experience and training levels and you find out if any increase is due to a lack of experience or training. Whether the old riders like it or not, training+experience trumps experience alone every-time.

    Location or Conditions
    I'm sure you all get the point right?

    Filter out the scooter riders from the motorcycle riders
    Yes they count scooters as motorcycles, even though you've done rider training, wear leather and a full-face helmet you are placed in the same category as an 20 year old in t-shirt and shorts when it comes to 2 wheel injuries.I've heard scooter riders are the least likely to do Ride Forever training too.

    Teach drivers to look for motorbikes!!!
    What's the ratio of fault? Do we have more drivers hitting bikes ?


  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo_akl View Post
    I think the report that they are using can be found here.

    http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...ycles-2016.pdf

    Some more stats are in the section 4 excel file here: http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...-zealand-2015/

    Interestingly, these numbers were not included in the published pdf, which somehow only shows simple stats with limited usefulness.

    The number of motorcyclist fatalities per 10,000 registered on-road motorcycles decreased until the year 2000.

    Since then, fatality rates per 10,000 registered on-road motorcycles have been pretty constant at 5 +/- 1
    (for comparison, the average fatality rate between 1951 and 1960 was 18). The numbers for 2016 were not yet included in the file, though.

    Anyway, 5 are still way to much.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    from media reports the bulk of single rider crashes are from the mid life crisis age group.
    And we all know how accurate media "facts" are, don't we?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by WristTwister View Post
    The first stat that matters is how many deaths per rider.
    This tells us whether or not there are more accidents because there are more riders - a number that any idiot who did statistics at school would want to know.
    While this would certainly be useful a better statistic to analyse is the number of accidents/deaths per distance travelled. Even if the number of riders stayed the same the relative statistical risk is lowered if the number of accidents/deaths stays the same but the distance travelled has risen.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grashopper View Post
    5 are still way to much.
    Life = risk. If you live, you will die. Some will always die on the road. This is a natural fact and one that we should never attempt to eliminate, for to remove risk you must first remove life.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by WristTwister View Post
    Scooter riders count towards motorcycle injuries. Aside from a half-shell helmet most of them don't wear any protection..
    I ride a scooter to work everyday, and have the helmet to prove it. I'll probably be down to T shirt and shorts later this summer. I don't see that a scooter is any more dangerous than a real mans motorcycle. 45 years, heaps of prangs, ALL my fault...any more and I'll still put it down to my own stupidity.
    In and out of jobs, running free
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motu View Post
    I don't see that a scooter is any more dangerous than a real mans motorcycle.
    All the more reason the separate them in the accident stats. Might shut some people up one way or another.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Deuce View Post
    Bullshit quotes from the cop, as usual. Vastly safer to carefully lanesplit in heavy traffic than sit between two people who are both technically tailgating. Getting caught between two large side by side trucks indicates a poor choice by the rider. Not ALL riders. Just that one, that one time. Fuck off with the generalisations.

    In terms of owning more of the responsibility for motorcycle accidents. Fuck off. Sick of listening to bullshit from people who don't know the lengths most motorcyclists go to to keep themselves safe and review their own skills and work on them.
    Amen! Sounds like hes trying to conjure excuse for more funding so they can have a special easy day of work eating donuts and chatting to bikers. Be lot easier than going to domestics and pulling over real crims or solo mothers with car loads of screaming kids whining about why they havent paid there wof rego etc.....

    Its a wonder police dont have a proper pr policy like big business and let someone do commenting who is done research, not some porr tired cop giving a media soundbite xmas rant.

    Mind you its not like they dont give other road users groups the same sweeping genralisations too...
    Govt gives you nothing because it creates nothing - Javier Milei

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by WristTwister View Post
    Let me just say no fucken clue how statistics work.

    The first stat that matters is how many deaths per rider.
    a number that any idiot who did statistics at school would want to know.
    I'm pretty sure you can only die once, no stats needed for that ;p sorry couldn't resist that, hear where your coming from though.
    Govt gives you nothing because it creates nothing - Javier Milei

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by swbarnett View Post
    While this would certainly be useful a better statistic to analyse is the number of accidents/deaths per distance travelled. Even if the number of riders stayed the same the relative statistical risk is lowered if the number of accidents/deaths stays the same but the distance travelled has risen.
    We love this stat in transport industry, especially quoted in millions of km travelled. However it only takes a few bad eggs and also unfortunate circumstance for stats to take an unfavourable turn. And its a bad stat to rely on as soon congestion will grow to the point where less km per vehicle will be travelled, but people will still do dumb stuff and crash/die as often as before.

    My theory is fatigue is massively under represented. What happens in a crash is one or more person makes a bad decision, that is then amplified by other factors -speed, alcohol, poor road condtions, road side infrastructure. So as long as this core factor remains due to long work hours, long commuting distances and kwiiws love of travel on weekends for sports and adventure, little will change.
    Govt gives you nothing because it creates nothing - Javier Milei

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    , or those who'd chosen not to partake in any form of ongoing training?
    Given the worship and fawning here on this forum about training its seems to be widespread, its hard to gauge if its had any significant influence on crash rates at all. A day or twos training does not change a users inherent traits and habits overnight, its no magic solution.
    See as 50 odd deaths is a realtively low number data wise, id like to see a more indepth breakdown of what actually contributed in each case. And if any of the riders had had 'training'....
    Eg how often is a bike just in the wrong place at wrong time and would have potentially died in a car anyway. Just like how theres a 'truck accident' when a car crosses centreline and hits a truck, that truck could have been a car unable to swerve in tiem and the results would be similar.
    Govt gives you nothing because it creates nothing - Javier Milei

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by R650R View Post
    Given the worship and fawning here on this forum about training its seems to be widespread, its hard to gauge if its had any significant influence on crash rates at all. A day or twos training does not change a users inherent traits and habits overnight, its no magic solution.
    See as 50 odd deaths is a realtively low number data wise, id like to see a more indepth breakdown of what actually contributed in each case. And if any of the riders had had 'training'....
    Eg how often is a bike just in the wrong place at wrong time and would have potentially died in a car anyway. Just like how theres a 'truck accident' when a car crosses centreline and hits a truck, that truck could have been a car unable to swerve in tiem and the results would be similar.
    Given that proper training takes more than a weekend, I would agree. My current advanced one I think will take a year to get through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    but once again you proved me wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by cassina View Post
    I was hit by one such driver while remaining in the view of their mirror.

  15. #30
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    after all the training you're still inherently at the bane of other motorists (drill it right back and you'll see what I mean) still it's good to take responsibility for your end, risk makes life worthwhile

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