NOT GOOD, Worst deaths in 19 years

[Tazz]

When I first saw this thread I thought it was about Drownings in NZ, Motorcycle deaths will be well under half of the needless drownings around the country, over 90 drowning deaths in 2014.


Sorry,
I know, back on to the topic.

Comparing just the deaths is misleading. There are a hell of a lot more people in and out of the water every year.

I agree it is something that more could be done about from what I've heard (from an ex Olympian turned swim coach customer), although when I was at school water safety was covered excellently for both ocean (primary) and rivers (high school).

[caspernz]

On the other hand, and much more likely, their training may have meant they had the time needed to brake or swerve due to having seen the situation develop.

Situational awareness can be taught, ask Katman. It is most unlikely ignorance is going to prove to be an advantage.

Situational awareness isn't a fix-all but it's a step in the right direction...

Foresight is not the sole domain of women.

Sorry to disappoint you.

The ability to anticipate requires an open mind though...

You should be able to stop in the distance you can see.

Which is just one of the road rules many of us break all too often. So when a Rossi wannabe charges around that 65 sign posted corner at 120 in an 80 zone and hits Farmer Bobs' tractor up the rear...can we blame the tractor?

To a point for sure, after that it's just a bunch of people preaching what they can't practice (because there is always an element of risk and the unknown).

Of course, and I'll be upfront and admit that my biking experience is limited to 3 continents, 3 decades, so I'm still learning myself. Just saying that a bit of self preservation, mixed with some quality on-going training/coaching can reduce the risk...make of that what you wish. Of course the unknown remains, but the "unknown" shrinks when sound riding practice is put in place.

But my point is not all "situations" as you put it develop in a slow enough motion to brake or swerve. I guess if you have never been in such a "situation" you will never understand what I am on about.

Situational awareness will never eliminate all emergency situations, but it will reduce the number you're involved in, as you'll see them develop. Of course this requires an open mind and reasonable observation skills, which can be taught, whereas an open or closed mind is a decision.

Thank you for posting that - quite interesting reading BUT I think ultimately the results of a study like this will be inaccurate. It relied on volunteers allowing gear to be mounted on the bie and if you know you are being watched your behaviour changes.

Having said that - still some interesting ideas....

Yes I found that interesting reading, but we'll never know how skewed the findings were on account of the riders being observed. The accident stats from our PTB are the next best thing.

Then there are the "Street Rossi's" on gixxers and ducatis and those bikes are well over 100hp.

I see just as many near misses from cruiser riders who have no grasp on their own (or their machines') ability. As a trucker, I see lots of poor riding, especially on weekends. The inability of riders to take a correct line thru a corner (for starters on their side of the centerline) is not the reserve of the MotoGP wannabe.

The next thing that is obvious on weekends is the variation in ability in general. Not hard to spot a real rider vs a guy with a bike. And this is merely my observation, not intended to offend anyone.

[swbarnett]

True, bias is always an issue with observational data gathering. However, you'd have thought that if you were being observed you be more careful than normal... so why the high incidence of rear-endings?

My feeling is that a biker's rear is not generally cosidered a problem so it's not something an "observation influenced" biker will think of. If anything the incidence of rear-ending may be higher while being observed because speeds may be lower.

At least they are trying to look objectively at what riders are doing. Our motorcycle safety council could certainly look at undertaking similar research here through the road safety research group at the University of Waikato.

Agreed.

[swbarnett]

None of which should present a huge challenge to a rider travelling at a sensible pace, with their eyes open...

Agreed. However, when said conditions are hidden by water, sun etc. they can still be a problem.

[george formby]

You should be able to stop in the distance you can see.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

Generally, yup. My reason for making a mental note of the tar paint is due to it being invisible if the road is wet. So I'm implying that bike control should be listed along with observation and situational awareness.
With the conditions of our road surfaces, being able to catch a wee step out or unexpected lock up when braking is very relevant. IMHO

[old slider]

Situational awareness isn't a fix-all but it's a step in the right direction...




The ability to anticipate requires an open mind though...




Which is just one of the road rules many of us break all too often. So when a Rossi wannabe charges around that 65 sign posted corner at 120 in an 80 zone and hits Farmer Bobs' tractor up the rear...can we blame the tractor?




Of course, and I'll be upfront and admit that my biking experience is limited to 3 continents, 3 decades, so I'm still learning myself. Just saying that a bit of self preservation, mixed with some quality on-going training/coaching can reduce the risk...make of that what you wish. Of course the unknown remains, but the "unknown" shrinks when sound riding practice is put in place.




Situational awareness will never eliminate all emergency situations, but it will reduce the number you're involved in, as you'll see them develop. Of course this requires an open mind and reasonable observation skills, which can be taught, whereas an open or closed mind is a decision.




Yes I found that interesting reading, but we'll never know how skewed the findings were on account of the riders being observed. The accident stats from our PTB are the next best thing.




I see just as many near misses from cruiser riders who have no grasp on their own (or their machines') ability. As a trucker, I see lots of poor riding, especially on weekends. The inability of riders to take a correct line thru a corner (for starters on their side of the centerline) is not the reserve of the MotoGP wannabe.

The next thing that is obvious on weekends is the variation in ability in general. Not hard to spot a real rider vs a guy with a bike. And this is merely my observation, not intended to offend anyone.

Good post. thanks for that insight.

The Latest HOG magazine has a good two page article headlined, "The Great Escape" has some awesome advice and various strategies for riders and us so called MLC (My Life Changed riders) because my kids are all grown up, my mortgage is paid, I have some spare coin and have more spare time.

[swbarnett]

So what more exactly do you want to learn about riding or need to learn? If you can state that then I would be able to say yes or no as to whether I have learnt that myself.

The trick is that I don't know what I have yet to learn. I know enough to know how little I really know. All I do know is that with your attitude you'll be blind to even the obvious learning opportunities that arise.

Only when you can guarantee 1000% that you can ride anywhere, at any time, under any conditions, arriving in one piece, in such a way that no divine entity could show you even the slightest room for improvement can you rightly say that you have nothing to learn.

[willytheekid]

Worst MOTORCYLE** deaths in 19 years


motorcycle** =

-All Dirtbike's
-All Farmers Quads & trikes & mudbugs etc
-All Kids bikes (two, three & 4 wheel powered vehicles)
-All Road Bikes, peddle assist, moped, scooters, some mobility scooters the lot!



...so how many warranted & registered road legal motorcycle deaths have we had on our roads again Mr Revenue collection officer and Ever quick to judge media??





"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics!"

-Mark Twain



Happy New Year Kbers...ride safe

[swbarnett]

Not all of us are born with woman's intuition though especially if we are guys

Wrong. That intuition is not the exclusive purview of women. It's something you build up over the years if your mind is open to it. It's called your subconscious.

[old slider]

Generally, yup. My reason for making a mental note of the tar paint is due to it being invisible if the road is wet. So I'm implying that bike control should be listed along with observation and situational awareness.
With the conditions of our road surfaces, being able to catch a wee step out or unexpected lock up when braking is very relevant. IMHO

Dumb question, but for newbies, how do we learn to catch the wee step out or unexpected lock up safely?

[onearmedbandit]

Dumb question, but for newbies, how do we learn to catch the wee step out or unexpected lock up safely?

Dirt bike riding for one.

[Blackbird]

It's all very well to argue about statistics and pinpointing root causes but I reckon that it's a bit more straightforward than that. Several of the posters have mentioned seeing poor skills displayed by riders on a regular basis. Bringing it even closer to home, how many have actually taken road-based training courses to get rid of those bad habits which inevitably creep in? How many make a point of upskilling periodically to stop the inevitable slide in skills?

What I'm trying to say that there's a lot we can all do as individuals to reduce personal risk and the motorcycle road toll without blaming cagers, statisticians and god knows who else. The biggest hurdle is actually getting off your arse and doing something about it. Most of it comes down to personal responsibility.

[onearmedbandit]

Most of it comes down to personal responsibility.

I'd argue that it all comes down to personal responsibility. I mean, who else are you going to leave it to?

[FJRider]

The only way the loss of control problem will be solved will be when they bring in driverless cars thats only if they can make them 100% safe.

Might be a while yet then ...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/google-...-worst-8917388

[ellipsis]

The old road code that I studied well when I was 15 and just going for my car and bike licences was a cool little book. At the end of it was a defensive driving chapter which brushed over a few important points. It also recommended doing a 'defensive driving course'. All those little pictures and tips stuck with me and still come into view even now. The one that sticks the most is, looking at where you are as well as looking at where you will be and to peer through hedges and any other stuff to see what may be around the bend, and to slow up if you are unsure of whats happening. It has not stopped me losing it when I have been acting silly and is not a failsafe, but how many riders actually are proactive in checking out evry driveway, country gate or side road. Too many riders are all intent on their 'style', and performance and just don't seem to get the point about being totally vulnerable to whatever happens in the next three second. That was 45 years ago. Educating yourself to the unforseen risks would go a long way to stopping a lot of these fatalities. Just because you have twin Brembos or ABS means fuck all if you don't have situational awareness.
But shit is always going to happen.

Riding a Sportster and just having fun riding may help too