Bloody freedom camping rules.

[Akzle]

Rubbish could 'quickly' be helped by having refundable tax on glass and plastic.
Only helped though, there are bigger problems.

what actually needs to happen is that manufacturers are charged for the lifcycle costs of not only what they make, but it's packaging and cartoning too (obviously these will be passed on to the consumer)
so what you'll see is a) less fucking plastic and b) less shit products and c)less packaging in general.

same applies to fast food wrappers. McDs should be charged cleanup costs every time one of their customers leaves a fucking quarter pound of shit in the carpark or chucks it out the window of their car.


vote akzle.

[FJRider]

Correct, it is a law, on a 'local' level. Good luck using that to somehow get around enforcement though.

Some people shoplift. Should rate payers in my local community pay for shop security and anti theft measures? Because that is what camp ground owners on some level are asking for.

I do feel compassion for them all said and done. The people that do that are in no way in the right, same with the lazy excuses for humans that shit next to a car in a fucking rest spot and drive off.

Rubbish could 'quickly' be helped by having refundable tax on glass and plastic.
Only helped though, there are bigger problems.

1. Laws are enforced by Police with powers of arrest. Police cannot arrest anybody for breaking a by-law.

By-laws are enforced (tickets issued) by council staff with NO powers of arrest, council employee's with all the authority of an average clerk. After the pay by date has passed, accounts are usually sent to vehicle owners. And the rental companies return them. then the accounts are sent to debt collection agencies.
Police refuse to enforce by-laws. Any legal action regarding the breaking of by-laws must be instigated (and paid for) by Council. For small (what amounts to) parking fines ... this is seldom financially viable. As such ... rely on the honesty and integrity () of the offender to pay the fine demanded.
Such are the woes of local governments ... in ALL parts of NZ.

2. Camp ground security has always been the responsibility of it's staff. No rate payer funds are used to police camp grounds (unless it is a council camp ground). Using camp facilities without paying is theft. As such ... against the law. And Police are involved when offenders are caught by camp staff.

3. Rubbish and shit is left by the lazy element of travelers that know they will be long gone when the rubbish is found where they left it. Any refundable tax will not be sufficient to be worth the effort and time to return and collect. They don't even (seem to) have time to find an empty rubbish bin.

[FJRider]

Like I said, NIMBYs. Local residents don't own the public land around them - you don't get to tell other people how they can use public spaces, within the bounds of reasonableness of course.

It's the same smug, arrogant attitude of people who live in beach towns and try to exclude/limit the use of beaches by visitors.

The powers that are voted into office are indeed "owned" by the local residents. Often the bounds of reasonableness is exceeded ... Greatly ....

The complaints of the use of beaches by visitors is a separate matter but not (usually) involving council by-laws. Most such complaints I have heard are (claimed) in regard to tribal ownership issues. The private land issues near beaches/lakes/rivers etc ... occur nationwide. And I concur with your thinking.

[russd7]

Like I said, NIMBYs. Local residents don't own the public land around them - you don't get to tell other people how they can use public spaces, within the bounds of reasonableness of course.

It's the same smug, arrogant attitude of people who live in beach towns and try to exclude/limit the use of beaches by visitors.

unfortunately this is a case of the actions of a few fuck it for everyone else, travel the southern routes of our fair country and stop in some o the accessible lakeside rest areas or sea side rest areas and have a look, don't let ya kids out of the car unless you want them playing in shit (literally)

this is not only happening in rest areas where there is no toilet but also in places where there are toilets available but people either cant be bothered using them or don't want to use them.

most down here don't oppose freedom camping on a whole, it is the mess that is left by some freedom campers that destroys the natural beauty.

as for public land, ya might find that through their rates people do own the public land around them and have a say via their local councilor

[Mike.Gayner]

as for public land, ya might find that through their rates people do own the public land around them and have a say via their local councilor

That's not how ownership works.

[Virago]

...this is not only happening in rest areas where there is no toilet but also in places where there are toilets available but people either cant be bothered using them or don't want to use them...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11777314

As above, in many cases there are lots of toilets provided. But many tourists find our chemical or "long-drop" dunnies too unpleasant to use, and would rather shit in the bushes alongside - or worse next to waterways. For some overseas visitors this can be partly due to cultural aversion to sit-down toilets - squatting in the bush is preferable.

Many of these tourists come from countries where they have comparatively high levels of Giardia in their gut. Their habit of shitting near waterways has rendered it inadvisable to drink from many of our high-country streams.

But back to freedom camping. I'm interested to know what those who so vehemently oppose controlling by-laws think should be done about the problems.

[granstar]

Poops in the bushes - be wary of nettles, just saying.

In this century (and last) food is more and more sold into plastics for food safety (but then is it, often more packaging than product in an item) ,the consumer not having a lot of choice about packaging other than not buying it. This leaves a mass of pollution, left not only at camping sites of unclean N.Z, but in our homes and habitat environs. People have got perhaps lazy as the world becomes "throwaway", tradespeople do not repair things these days, technology is out of control. Oh the days we used to get a return on glass bottles, bread used to come unwrapped and always tasted best after a store cat had chased a mouse across it on the shelf, fish and chips came in biodegradable news-wrap, no one died, or lived to tell, it never affected me in any way

Perhaps a look up the ladder to the core issue and not all at the firefighting stage. A google on plastic waste escalating in the oceans killing the inhabitants shows the problem is massive and global. The onus of people to stop littering is big, how does it get controlled in a world of corporate greed.
Yeah if every one did their little bit, I ride a motorcycle to reduce emissions, I pick my shit, I pick up others shit from beaches and reserves, porobally makes jack difference but I feel better about leaving a place better than when I found it, but a majority don't seem to care too much. A change may come when it's all too late and the world is like those house on the "hoarder" programs on t.v, ...have we given up?.

[FJRider]

That's not how ownership works.

Tell that to the Councillor ...

[FJRider]

unfortunately Most down here don't oppose freedom camping on a whole, it is the mess that is left by some freedom campers that destroys the natural beauty.

as for public land, ya might find that through their rates people do own the public land around them and have a say via their local councilor

Many locals in a lot of these areas have "adopted" some parks and roadside verges to keep the places looking tidy. But they get sickened (literally) when they find the entire contents of a campervan waste tank at a rest stop or car park.

For public ownership to work ... people must take ownership of the problems in their areas. If the idea that those causing issues shouldn't pay (Literally .. ??) a part in fixing the problem offends anyone ... is it a case of head in the sand ... or are we missing something .. ??

[Tazz]

what actually needs to happen is that manufacturers are charged for the lifcycle costs of not only what they make, but it's packaging and cartoning too (obviously these will be passed on to the consumer)
so what you'll see is a) less fucking plastic and b) less shit products and c)less packaging in general.

same applies to fast food wrappers. McDs should be charged cleanup costs every time one of their customers leaves a fucking quarter pound of shit in the carpark or chucks it out the window of their car.


vote akzle.

Can't argue with that. If all companies are forced to do it the playing field is level cost wise as well. It is on us to bring it around by paying more attention to what we buy as well, but, if people can't even use a toilet...

[russd7]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11777314

As above, in many cases there are lots of toilets provided. But many tourists find our chemical or "long-drop" dunnies too unpleasant to use, and would rather shit in the bushes alongside - or worse next to waterways. For some overseas visitors this can be partly due to cultural aversion to sit-down toilets - squatting in the bush is preferable.

Many of these tourists come from countries where they have comparatively high levels of Giardia in their gut. Their habit of shitting near waterways has rendered it inadvisable to drink from many of our high-country streams.

But back to freedom camping. I'm interested to know what those who so vehemently oppose controlling by-laws think should be done about the problems.

hence why i stated "not wanting to use them"

in our travels from one end of the south to the other and yes we stopped in and passed areas where freedom camping happens we found that the majority of those that were travelling the vehicles that seemed to predominately stop in these places, ie the toyota previa type camper or small van type or car and tent, were of European persuasion so therefor the cultural aversion part of your argument does not stand up. the asians that were in campers were in large motorhome type campers and from what we witnessed they tended to stop in camp grounds.

i personally don't advocate stopping freedom camping but am still not sure how to fix the problem

[Grumph]

That's not how ownership works.

Tell that to the Councillor ...

In an increasing number of rural locations, the landowner closest to the site of the problem is often now the Councillor...

It's happening as a result of frustration and the desire to do something about it...
I'm picking that there will be an increasing number of Councils banning freedom camping - certainly in the SI.
Whether ratepayers will be happy paying for enforcement officers is another question.

[Big Dog]

Would it be a simple solution to lift bans as such but charge those dumping waste with bio or eco terrorism?
Life sentence at theirs or their personal expense followed by deportation ought to be a suitable deterrent.

Sent from Tapatalk. DYAC

[FJRider]

In an increasing number of rural locations, the landowner closest to the site of the problem is often now the Councillor...

It's happening as a result of frustration and the desire to do something about it...
I'm picking that there will be an increasing number of Councils banning freedom camping - certainly in the SI.
Whether ratepayers will be happy paying for enforcement officers is another question.

I'm picking the issue will be taken over by Central Government. The rules in Legislation not by-laws.

[Mike.Gayner]

I'm picking the issue will be taken over by Central Government. The rules in Legislation not by-laws.

This was addressed by the government several years ago and was hotly debated. The government correctly erred on the side of freedom of movement and freedom of enjoyment of public spaces. The new legislation gave powers to local bodies to determine restricted areas, under the proviso that they need to have good defensible reasons behind such restrictions.

Most freedom camping bylaws in place are illegal under this legislation, and it would be childs play to challenge infringements.